I was going through my old posts, and found this as a draft. I didn't want to discard it, so here it is...
A remembrance from childhood...
I was raised by a Catholic mom and Lutheran Dad, so we were sent to mass at a Catholic Church when we were younger. My older brother was even an altar boy, a fact I find very ironic! (You would have to know my brother to understand that.)
I must have been about 7 when this happened. It was a weekday evening, and my brother was at church. I was looking for him, so I stepped inside to see if he were there. I cracked the door open and scanned the sanctuary. I did not see him, so I left. Apparently, there was some kind of service going on at the time.
As I was leaving the building, a priest asked what I was doing. I told him I was looking for my brother, and did not see him, so I was leaving. He then proceeded to tell me that I had just committed a mortal sin. (I am not sure what that sin was, perhaps leaving a church service? Talking to a priest? Looking for my brother?) I remember thinking, "Well, that does it, I just blew it and now I am damned to hell for all of eternity." I don't recall if I had any further conversation with the priest, but I do recall going home, all the way thinking what it was going to be like in hell.
We tend to remember strange things from our childhood.
Jesus was there that day, as he always is. And he took care of me as he always does. I ended up leaving the Catholic Church a few years later, but story is for another time.
I see the signs now, "Catholic Come Home." They make me chuckle. Come home to eternal damnation is what I hear when I read those signs, and I am not interested in that. I read a lot about people who have left the institutional church for a variety of reasons. I can understand why sometimes. Is it just me, or has the church (as a whole, and not just the Catholic church) gotten away from what it was intended to be?
Saturday, October 13, 2012
Tuesday, October 9, 2012
Does God punish sin?
Summary so far: Job is a righteous rich man, who loses everything except his life, and apparently his wife. His friends come to comfort him, and when they go to see him, can hardly recognize him. They spend seven days in silence together, and finally Job speaks, mourning the day he was born. Then Eliphaz speaks... I just want to highlight a few of the things he says. Wish I had time to go through it all. red letters are Scripture, black bold letters are comments.
Job, you have been helpful and supportive to many. Now it your time to receive help and support. Not a bad thought, but perhaps a little cold or blunt at the moment.
17 ‘Can a mortal be more righteous than God? Nope!
Can even a strong man be more pure than his Maker? No again.
Chapter 5 (ESV)
So hear it and apply it to yourself.”
This is what we believe, so it must be true. Listen to me. Yet did Eliphaz really hear himself? Was he listening to Job, feeling his pain, or was he just looking to justify his belief system by ascribing fault to Job and removing fault from God?
I think that there is both wisdom and foolishness in Eliphaz's response. He is a little harsh when it comes to his friend, who is frustrated and grieving. It sounds as if he begins by saying, "How does it feel now that the shoe is on the other foot? He speaks some truth, or perhaps regurgitates it without even understanding it. Again, it reminds me of those preachers I hear whose plan of study is to read someone else's book or sermon. They preach with passion, maybe even conviction, and perhaps one of the people they hope to convict is their own selves.
Or not.
Chapter 4 (ESV)
4 Your words have supported those who stumbled;
you have strengthened faltering knees.
5 But now trouble comes to you, and you are discouraged;
it strikes you, and you are dismayed
you have strengthened faltering knees.
5 But now trouble comes to you, and you are discouraged;
it strikes you, and you are dismayed
Job, you have been helpful and supportive to many. Now it your time to receive help and support. Not a bad thought, but perhaps a little cold or blunt at the moment.
7 “Consider now: Who, being innocent, has ever perished? How about every single one. Every person eventually perishes. Part of the problem I see here is the same thing I see in modern preaching, it weighs experience and emotion over truth. Surely this man has seen or known of a child that died young, or a good person who suffered. But we attribute some evil to that person without a real basis. Perhaps that child would have become a murderer or thief. Surely Job has some hidden sin that makes him guilty.
Where were the upright ever destroyed? No and Yes. No one is really righteous, but several decent people have endured suffering while less desirable have prospered.
8 As I have observed, those who plow evil
and those who sow trouble reap it. A generalization much like a proverb, but not a hard and fast rule. Unless you count judgment day, which I don't think he was.
Where were the upright ever destroyed? No and Yes. No one is really righteous, but several decent people have endured suffering while less desirable have prospered.
8 As I have observed, those who plow evil
and those who sow trouble reap it. A generalization much like a proverb, but not a hard and fast rule. Unless you count judgment day, which I don't think he was.
Can even a strong man be more pure than his Maker? No again.
Chapter 5 (ESV)
2 Resentment kills a fool,
and envy slays the simple.
3 I myself have seen a fool taking root,
but suddenly his house was cursed.
Is he calling Job a fool? Is he blaming Job for his calamity? It sure sounds like it. Why is it that everyone looking in from the outside wants to stand in judgment?
8 “But if I were you, I would appeal to God;
and envy slays the simple.
3 I myself have seen a fool taking root,
but suddenly his house was cursed.
Is he calling Job a fool? Is he blaming Job for his calamity? It sure sounds like it. Why is it that everyone looking in from the outside wants to stand in judgment?
8 “But if I were you, I would appeal to God;
I would lay my cause before him.
Cannot argue with this advice! It just seems to lack a little when placed in with everything else he has to day. A little bit of truth in with a lot of mush.
17 “Blessed is the one whom God corrects;
Cannot argue with this advice! It just seems to lack a little when placed in with everything else he has to day. A little bit of truth in with a lot of mush.
17 “Blessed is the one whom God corrects;
so do not despise the discipline of the Almighty.
The word "discipline" is the Hebrew word "muwcar" and carries with it the idea of correction or chastening. Taken in the deepest sense, this means that Job, or anyone who endures trouble, can and should consider themselves blessed. (See James 1:3) Again, good advice, but taken in the context of his other comments, I think Eliphaz is more focused on the idea of God punishing Job for his sins, rather than focusing on the sovereignty of God, which I believe James is speaking of.
18 For he wounds, but he also binds up;
he injures, but his hands also heal.
There is a very deep beauty in this verse. I wonder if either of them see it.
27 “We have examined this, and it is true.
The word "discipline" is the Hebrew word "muwcar" and carries with it the idea of correction or chastening. Taken in the deepest sense, this means that Job, or anyone who endures trouble, can and should consider themselves blessed. (See James 1:3) Again, good advice, but taken in the context of his other comments, I think Eliphaz is more focused on the idea of God punishing Job for his sins, rather than focusing on the sovereignty of God, which I believe James is speaking of.
18 For he wounds, but he also binds up;
he injures, but his hands also heal.
There is a very deep beauty in this verse. I wonder if either of them see it.
27 “We have examined this, and it is true.
This is what we believe, so it must be true. Listen to me. Yet did Eliphaz really hear himself? Was he listening to Job, feeling his pain, or was he just looking to justify his belief system by ascribing fault to Job and removing fault from God?
I think that there is both wisdom and foolishness in Eliphaz's response. He is a little harsh when it comes to his friend, who is frustrated and grieving. It sounds as if he begins by saying, "How does it feel now that the shoe is on the other foot? He speaks some truth, or perhaps regurgitates it without even understanding it. Again, it reminds me of those preachers I hear whose plan of study is to read someone else's book or sermon. They preach with passion, maybe even conviction, and perhaps one of the people they hope to convict is their own selves.
Or not.
Sunday, October 7, 2012
Job's frustration and anger
For 7 days Job and his friends sat in silence. But sometimes, actions speak louder than words. How were those 7 days spent? Were there pats on the back and looks of sympathy? Or was there some whispering and looks of condensation. Whatever it was, when Job finally speaks, it seems to be out of frustration.
He curses the day he was born, and wishes he had died at birth. Depression has set in. Or is it anger, the second stage of grief. It appears that Job is angry. Why did this have to happen to him? Why had he been born? Why hadn't he died at birth? Why him?
How do you deal with a friend who is angry or hurting? One thing is sure, you deal with him in line with your belief system. In Chapter 4, one of Job's friends will begin speaking to him. He will speak from his belief system, from his depth of experience. Problem is, experience is not always a good theologian. Or is it?
He curses the day he was born, and wishes he had died at birth. Depression has set in. Or is it anger, the second stage of grief. It appears that Job is angry. Why did this have to happen to him? Why had he been born? Why hadn't he died at birth? Why him?
How do you deal with a friend who is angry or hurting? One thing is sure, you deal with him in line with your belief system. In Chapter 4, one of Job's friends will begin speaking to him. He will speak from his belief system, from his depth of experience. Problem is, experience is not always a good theologian. Or is it?
Deja Vu all over again...
Chapter 2 of Job offers a repeat (somewhat) of Chapter 1. Satan has again been wandering around the earth again, probably wanting to taunt God because of the apparent failure of His creation. Yeah, there was that Job thing, but he is just one out of so many others. But again, God draws his attention to Job. (Remember, last time this did not go very well for Job.)
Of course, Satan has his excuse. Job 2:4-6
So it doesn't matter that you take all his stuff, you haven't touched him. But if you make him personally suffer, he will hate you. So God once again gives Satan limited reign to attack Job. Only Satan must not take his life.
Does anyone else find it interesting that Satan does not take Job's wife? Was this part of his master plan to increase Job's suffering? I digress...
So his wife sees all that has happened, and tells him to end it all, just curse God and die. What a great supporter, helpmate. Job's response is quite incredible (Vs. 10)
I want to note two things from this verse. First, that Job views both good and bad as coming from God. This is not some kind of dualism, where good and evil are balanced forces. It is a view that God is sovereign, and in control of everything that happens. It is Job rejecting the view that this series of catastrophes is a consequence of his behavior as others will suppose. Second, note that in his reaction, Job did not sin with his lips. In other words, Job did not misspeak. Don't like this thought? Then you probably won't like these verses either...
Prov. 16:4 The Lord has made everything for its purpose, even the wicked for the day of trouble.
Amos 3:6 Is a trumpet blown in a city, and the people are not afraid? Does disaster come to a city, unless the Lord has done it?
Or Is 45:7, Is 53:10, 2 Ki 15:5, 2 Sam 24:1...I could go on.
So at the end of the chapter, enter 3 friends. They came to offer sympathy and comfort. For 7 days they just sat and said nothing. It must have been a difficult 7 days for all.
Of course, Satan has his excuse. Job 2:4-6
Then Satan answered the Lord and said, “Skin for skin! All that a man has he will give for his life But stretch out your hand and touch his bone and his flesh, and he will curse you to your face.” And the Lord said to Satan, “Behold, he is in your hand; only spare his life.”
So it doesn't matter that you take all his stuff, you haven't touched him. But if you make him personally suffer, he will hate you. So God once again gives Satan limited reign to attack Job. Only Satan must not take his life.
Does anyone else find it interesting that Satan does not take Job's wife? Was this part of his master plan to increase Job's suffering? I digress...
So his wife sees all that has happened, and tells him to end it all, just curse God and die. What a great supporter, helpmate. Job's response is quite incredible (Vs. 10)
But he said to her, “You speak as one of the foolish women would speak. Shall we receive good from God, and shall we not receive evil?” In all this Job did not sin with his lips.
I want to note two things from this verse. First, that Job views both good and bad as coming from God. This is not some kind of dualism, where good and evil are balanced forces. It is a view that God is sovereign, and in control of everything that happens. It is Job rejecting the view that this series of catastrophes is a consequence of his behavior as others will suppose. Second, note that in his reaction, Job did not sin with his lips. In other words, Job did not misspeak. Don't like this thought? Then you probably won't like these verses either...
Prov. 16:4 The Lord has made everything for its purpose, even the wicked for the day of trouble.
Amos 3:6 Is a trumpet blown in a city, and the people are not afraid? Does disaster come to a city, unless the Lord has done it?
Or Is 45:7, Is 53:10, 2 Ki 15:5, 2 Sam 24:1...I could go on.
So at the end of the chapter, enter 3 friends. They came to offer sympathy and comfort. For 7 days they just sat and said nothing. It must have been a difficult 7 days for all.
Saturday, October 6, 2012
He was that kind of man...
The book of job begins by describing Job, and 2 Hebrew words are used to describe him,
The first is "tam," and this word means perfect or complete. Now this can be taken in several ways. One way is in an earthly way, to say that someone is handsome, that they do not lack either in beauty or in need. They are rich. It can also be taken in a moral sense, to say that they are pure, innocent, of great integrity. Some versions say blameless. I don't know that I would take it that far, and no one other than Christ is truly without blame. But I would say that Job was likely handsome, definitely rich, and a person of great moral integrity.
The second word is "yashar," which means straight, correct, right. I believe that this reinforces the first word, and lets us know that Job is a good man.
I think that this understanding of Job is going to be important was we see what happens to him, and as we listen to his and his friends response to those events. God was as pleased with Job as He could be with any human at that time.
Here is where things start to get interesting. Most people ascribe what happens next to Job to Satan, and only to Satan. I don't, as I see God is directly involved in the events that follow. Take a look at verses 6 - 8.
Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came among them. The Lord said to Satan, “From where have you come?” Satan answered the Lord and said, “From going to and fro on the earth, and from walking up and down on it.” And the Lord said to Satan, “Have you considered my servant Job, that there is none like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, who fears God and turns away from evil?”
So Satan has been out observing mankind. God knew what was in Satan's heart when he said that he had been on earth. He knew that Satan was mocking God because of His creation, and how corrupt and evil it was. And then God, not Satan, brings Job into the picture! What about Job? He is not like the rest. He is like no other.
Yes, Satan knew of Job, and he was ready for this one human anomaly. There was a reason Job was like he was, and it was because of how God had blessed him. Why, take away those blessings, and Job would be like everyone else.
So God told him to go. Verse 12.
And the Lord said to Satan, “Behold, all that he has is in your hand. Only against him do not stretch out your hand.” So Satan went out from the presence of the Lord.
Satan offered a challenge, but God was in charge. And to further prove His control, God limited what Satan could do to the man. And so Satan does what he does best, he attacks Job within the boundaries that God set. He lost flocks, servants, even his own children. So, now that Job is no longer within the hedge that Satan claimed God had provided for him, how would he respond? Verse 20.
Then Job arose and tore his robe and shaved his head and fell on the ground and worshiped. 21 And he said, “Naked I came from my mother's womb, and naked shall I return. The Lord gave, and the Lord has taken away; blessed be the name of the Lord.”
Wow! Satan was wrong. In the face of unbelievable lost, Job does not blame God, and in fact praises Him. Amazing.
The first is "tam," and this word means perfect or complete. Now this can be taken in several ways. One way is in an earthly way, to say that someone is handsome, that they do not lack either in beauty or in need. They are rich. It can also be taken in a moral sense, to say that they are pure, innocent, of great integrity. Some versions say blameless. I don't know that I would take it that far, and no one other than Christ is truly without blame. But I would say that Job was likely handsome, definitely rich, and a person of great moral integrity.
The second word is "yashar," which means straight, correct, right. I believe that this reinforces the first word, and lets us know that Job is a good man.
I think that this understanding of Job is going to be important was we see what happens to him, and as we listen to his and his friends response to those events. God was as pleased with Job as He could be with any human at that time.
Here is where things start to get interesting. Most people ascribe what happens next to Job to Satan, and only to Satan. I don't, as I see God is directly involved in the events that follow. Take a look at verses 6 - 8.
Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came among them. The Lord said to Satan, “From where have you come?” Satan answered the Lord and said, “From going to and fro on the earth, and from walking up and down on it.” And the Lord said to Satan, “Have you considered my servant Job, that there is none like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, who fears God and turns away from evil?”
So Satan has been out observing mankind. God knew what was in Satan's heart when he said that he had been on earth. He knew that Satan was mocking God because of His creation, and how corrupt and evil it was. And then God, not Satan, brings Job into the picture! What about Job? He is not like the rest. He is like no other.
Yes, Satan knew of Job, and he was ready for this one human anomaly. There was a reason Job was like he was, and it was because of how God had blessed him. Why, take away those blessings, and Job would be like everyone else.
So God told him to go. Verse 12.
And the Lord said to Satan, “Behold, all that he has is in your hand. Only against him do not stretch out your hand.” So Satan went out from the presence of the Lord.
Satan offered a challenge, but God was in charge. And to further prove His control, God limited what Satan could do to the man. And so Satan does what he does best, he attacks Job within the boundaries that God set. He lost flocks, servants, even his own children. So, now that Job is no longer within the hedge that Satan claimed God had provided for him, how would he respond? Verse 20.
Then Job arose and tore his robe and shaved his head and fell on the ground and worshiped. 21 And he said, “Naked I came from my mother's womb, and naked shall I return. The Lord gave, and the Lord has taken away; blessed be the name of the Lord.”
Wow! Satan was wrong. In the face of unbelievable lost, Job does not blame God, and in fact praises Him. Amazing.
Am I Being Misunderstood?
I believe in the absolute sovereignty of God.
I believe that God can do know wrong. He may do things that I do not like or understand, but my understanding is nothing compared to His infinite wisdom. There are times that I see the things God has done, and cannot make sense of them. But I am not here or able to comprehend, with my finite mind, the infinite wonders and actions of my God.
I believe that God sometimes takes action in response to our sin. Let me correct, He always takes action in response to our sin, but sometimes that action is appears to us as inaction. This action (or apparent inaction) is motivated out of His love for us, and His desire is to draw us to Him. David's son, Ananias and Sapphira, Jonah's dying plant come to mind as examples of his actions.
I believe that God sometimes takes action because He has a sovereign plan, and it has nothing to do with a response or a punishment for sin. While that action might appear punitive, or we might see it as punitive, it is not. I think of the man born blind. When asked whose sin was the reason for his blindness, Jesus responded that it was not due to anyone's sin, but that God might be glorified through him.
I believe that our God is a wonderful God. I believe this even though things don't always go the way I desire. My daughter will spend several hours today taking her IV treatment for the CIDP, a disease she contracted from taking a flu shot. Since she is not responding to these treatments alone, she has also been started on a large does steroid. This will have some side effects, especially at first, but it is the recommended course of treatment. I know that God could take this from her, but He has not chosen to do this yet. I love my daughter, but this does not make God any less precious to me. I don't know His purpose in this, but I believe that we are all in His hands, and that is all I need to know. Much like Paul, I want to be able to say that His grace is sufficient for me and for my family.
To sum up...I believe that God is sovereign, and in control of the universe. I believe that He acts as He will, sometimes healing and sometimes not, to fulfill His purposes. I believe that some actions of God are punitive, while others are not. And that it may be sometimes difficult for us to know which it is. I trust God. Even should something even more traumatic happen tomorrow, this world is only a temporary place, and my eternity will far outweigh any suffering that takes place on earth. I don't always have to get my way.
That is what I believe.
I believe that God can do know wrong. He may do things that I do not like or understand, but my understanding is nothing compared to His infinite wisdom. There are times that I see the things God has done, and cannot make sense of them. But I am not here or able to comprehend, with my finite mind, the infinite wonders and actions of my God.
I believe that God sometimes takes action in response to our sin. Let me correct, He always takes action in response to our sin, but sometimes that action is appears to us as inaction. This action (or apparent inaction) is motivated out of His love for us, and His desire is to draw us to Him. David's son, Ananias and Sapphira, Jonah's dying plant come to mind as examples of his actions.
I believe that God sometimes takes action because He has a sovereign plan, and it has nothing to do with a response or a punishment for sin. While that action might appear punitive, or we might see it as punitive, it is not. I think of the man born blind. When asked whose sin was the reason for his blindness, Jesus responded that it was not due to anyone's sin, but that God might be glorified through him.
I believe that our God is a wonderful God. I believe this even though things don't always go the way I desire. My daughter will spend several hours today taking her IV treatment for the CIDP, a disease she contracted from taking a flu shot. Since she is not responding to these treatments alone, she has also been started on a large does steroid. This will have some side effects, especially at first, but it is the recommended course of treatment. I know that God could take this from her, but He has not chosen to do this yet. I love my daughter, but this does not make God any less precious to me. I don't know His purpose in this, but I believe that we are all in His hands, and that is all I need to know. Much like Paul, I want to be able to say that His grace is sufficient for me and for my family.
To sum up...I believe that God is sovereign, and in control of the universe. I believe that He acts as He will, sometimes healing and sometimes not, to fulfill His purposes. I believe that some actions of God are punitive, while others are not. And that it may be sometimes difficult for us to know which it is. I trust God. Even should something even more traumatic happen tomorrow, this world is only a temporary place, and my eternity will far outweigh any suffering that takes place on earth. I don't always have to get my way.
That is what I believe.
Thursday, October 4, 2012
Here's what I think...
I know that I am in a minority these days, as a Reformed believer. I haven't always believed this way. I was a part of the mainstream "evangelical" movement for many, many years. I even went to an "evangelical" Bible college where I majored in Bible and Christian Education. I spent several years in ministry. I was an elder in our local church which we had been attending for about 8 years. But then I started having some questions, and I made the mistake of trying to get some answers.
I started asking questions about what we believe and why. Why did we feel the need to take what the Bible says and change it to make it more appealing. The Bible says in our weakness we are strong, and that our inabilities show his glory as He uses us to accomplish His purposes. But that does not sell. So we changed it to say that God wants us to be happy and satisfied. He wants us to be full of esteem. We started showing how that our strengths are what glorify God. And that our abilities bring Him praise.
Who in the Bible thought this way? Well, David did, when he took saw Bathsheba. Maybe he thought God wanted him to be happy. Moses did, when he struck that rock. Jonah, when he complained about the plant that died. But those did not go well.
Well, those are OT, what about the NT? That was different, right? That was when God really wanted us to be happy, right?
Surely the praise of the believers would make Ananias and Sapphira happy. Peter telling Jesus that he shouldn't have to suffer, that was the right thing to do, wasn't it? What about those Galatians, and their desire to follow a different gospel? If it made them feel better, was that okay?
At first, it was just a feeling that something was off, and I was searching for answers. But the evangelical church does not like questions. It likes happy thoughts and good feelings and a smiling Jesus who loves you no matter what. While I am not questioning the depth of the love of Jesus, I do question the our response to Him and the consequences of that response.
Just how narrow is the narrow road?
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