The Pastor's Letter - Conclusion

All in all, if you just read through his letter, it is amazingly well crafted. He gets his point across without saying anything that would likely get him into trouble on its face value. He "thought a letter might be simpler than trying to schedule another meeting." How considerate on its face value. Thanking us for our integrity and courage. Sharing his pain. It almost seems as if he has had a change of heart. But then the stonewall defense. My friends stand behind me, you misinterpreted or misheard my message, that wasn't what I intended to stay...and then the wall goes up. "I do not intend to give a rebuttal..." Can't lose a game if you won't get on the court!

Then more defenses, but not of his message, just of himself. I spend time and effort preparing, researching, crafting my sermons. I have my message vetted by the same people who always vet them, they have doctorates, I take far more precaution than the average preacher, etc. All in defense of him and his integrity, nothing about the message because that would not be "a helpful process."

So an analogy. I go to a doctor, who diagnosis a problem, say cancer. I go for a second opinion, and this doctor says it is not cancer, but a lesser, easier treatable disease. I go back to my doctor to discuss the other diagnosis. Instead of considering the possibility or even hearing the other doctors reasons, he simply says that he will not give rebuttal to that doctor, to do so would not be helpful. He warns me that the potential of quarreling with him could have life-threatening consequences! He then goes on to tell me that he takes his job seriously, reads medical journals, discusses his cases with other, even more qualified doctors than himself. He talks about how long I have been his patient, and doesn't that count for something? But he never reexamines me or listens to the reasons for the other doctor's diagnosis. I am supposed to have total trust in him because he says he cares for me. But his actions say that he cares for himself, and that he is hurt and angry about my checking with another doctor. So what do I do? Do I trust him or the other doctor? In reality, I probably do neither. Instead, I start researching some for myself, and probably even get a third or fourth opinion. My health is too important for me to lay at the feet of some quack who, though knowledgeable of some things, clearly does not have my best interests at heart.

So is my spiritual health. So, if it walks like a duck, and talks like a duck...you know the rest. Quack!

The Pastor's Letter - Part 5

The previous 4 parts are my previous 4 posts. My musings are in bold type.

I hope and pray that knowing where I stand on these issues will allow you to interpret my comments in the future in a way that you find harmonious with Scripture. (Sorry, I don't base my interpretation of Scripture based on knowing the person who is speaking. We all fall short, and no one knows it all. And it is sad that you would even expect this. At one time, you commended us for our searching of the Bible, as did the Berean Christians. Apparently, however, if we do not do so and then quickly and blindly come to the conclusion that you are right, then it is a problem.) I pray that you will now be able to be encouraged, deified, challenged and changed as a result of God working through my efforts in preaching. (Actually, because of how you handled this, even less so.) I am hoping you will be able to embrace me and my preaching just as you have embraced the other aspects of our ministry here at UCC. (Of course that is what you are hoping will happen, because then you won't have to deal with any problems in your perfect church, full of perfect people who all agree with you apparently.) If so, that will be a wonderful answer to prayer!

But if after this you still do not have confidence in me or my preaching, then-sadly-we are probably not the church for you. (So, there is no room for disagreement with the pastor in "your" church. No questioning, no discussion, just fall in or fall out.)There will be no hard feelings on my part should you decide to move on, (In fact, I will be dancing the whole day!) and I pray God blesses you wherever you make your church home. (Because otherwise you might come back!) Of course, this would not be the outcome I have been praying for, (Because there are 4 of you, and that will hurt our attendance averages) but it would probably be a better outcome than you being in a church with preaching you cannot support. (Better for me that is, because this stuff hurts my feelings and makes me uncomfortable.) My sermons reflect not only my positions, but those of our leadership and the church as a whole. (When I say the church as a whole, that excludes you, of course.) It would be difficult, at best, for you to be happy and to grow here if you are on a different page regarding matters as important as those reflected in your paper. (Actually, quite the opposite. Your preaching has caused me to search my Bible more than at any other time in my life. It is kind of like being in school and preparing for a debate. You have to be on your toes and do your research, or you will fail. I have done my research, and feel that I am more than ever prepared to give an answer for what I believe to be true. I just am sorry that it has fallen on deaf ears. Well, not really deaf, more so unwilling to listen. I believe that there is a difference!) It would be more likely that your frustrations would only grow. (First, I don't base my "happiness" on external things. My joy is in the Lord, and being unhappy is not the problem for me that it is for you. To quote John Piper, "God is most glorified when I am most satisfied in him." So my joy is not based on my circumstances. God's blessings surround me in times of plenty and times of little, in times of despair and times of rejoicing. I see that as a major difference in our approaches to Him.)

Whatever you decide, I will regard you as friends and as my brother and sister in Christ. (If this is how you treat your family, I feel sorry for them.)

There you have it. The entire text plus added commentary. It makes me sad to go through this, but it also helps affirm our choice and see the value of the past 18 or so months. Praise God.

The Pastor's Letter - Part 4

Parts 1-3 are the previous posts. My musings are bolded.

I regret that you came to a different conclusion about me as a preacher and that you interpreted my comments in a negative and objectionable light. Perhaps it was because you did not know me and were not sure about some of my foundational beliefs, so when certain statements were made you feared I meant them one way when, if you had known me better, you would have known that I did not mean them that way. (Yeah, Jesus had that same problem when He spoke to the Pharisees. But seriously, if you have to know the preacher to understand what he says when he preaches, isn't that a problem?)

One theme that seemed to permeate your comments was the theme that we need to focus on giving glory to God, not get caught up in a bunch of works and rules, etc. to (Okay, perhaps I was not clear enough for you. It is not that we should not being doing good things, it is that the good things we do should should be motivated by our love for God and seeing Him as beautiful, and not by a desire to be blessed or curry God's favor. When 90% of the sermon is telling us how to behave and the other 10% is offering an invitation, that does not glorify God.) I assure you, that I agree that glorifying God is paramount. (That is what you say, so then why is that not reflected in your messages?) I also believe that we can best glorify God when we devote ourselves to the disciplines and practices given us to follow in the New Testament. (Okay, so you admit this.) Preaching on such things is not intended to replace the goal of glorifying God, but rather to enable us to reach that goal. (While that might not be intended, it is the result. We do not reach the goal of glorifying God by human effort. You can espouse all the behaviors you want, without the gospel it is in vain. Gal. 1:6-7  ⁶ I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— ⁷ which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ.)

Another theme I picked up on in your responses was an emphasis on the fact that God has to bring about the change in our lives - we don't do it ourselves. Again, I agree with you and my sermons are not intended to contradict that truth. (Again, while that may not be the intention, I believe it is the result.)  At the same time, I believe that God won't bring that change into our lives against our free will. As I said in Come and Be Fed,  we can't do it without Him and He chooses not to do it without us. (Yes, cliches are fine, but what does that really mean? How much is God and how much is us? How much do we need Him and how much does he need us? Inquiring minds want to know.)    

More later.

The Pastor's Letter - Part 3

Parts 1 and 2 are the preceding posts. My musings are bolded.

As I mentioned to you when we met together, I spend much time and effort every week researching the text (reading a book), praying for insight, crafting the message (Looking for proof-texts, even if I have to take something out of context), choosing words and phrases carefully, and trying to develop a sermon that accurately communicates God's truth in a manner that will interest and impact the listener. (Even if it takes every bad joke I have, doggone it!) I not only labor over what to say, but how to say it. I also have my message vetted each week by three other Christian Church ministers, two of which have doctorate degrees. (Should I be impressed? Are their names Annas and Caiaphas?) These men do not pull punches when it comes to their evaluations. (So you can take criticism from them, but not those within your own congregation? They can be honest, but others don't even get a response?) I read the sermon out loud to them while they have a copy in their hands to mark and write comments on. (Maybe we should compare notes!) Then they point out anything they see that might make my sermon stronger, including phrases that could be misunderstood or taken the wrong way. (They really let you keep in that bunny joke last Easter? That was cruel of them.) That is one reason I am surprised that you have misunderstood the intended meaning of phrases, points or entire messages I have preached. (I see it more as a disagreement that a misunderstanding. I will get to posting some of my comments and maybe some will post their understandings as well.) I am trying to do everything I can to rightly handle the Word of Truth and am taking for more precautions than the average preacher in doing so. (Did you just call yourself above-average? I happen to know that 50% of all people are below average.) I have been reassured by other mature and respected Christian leaders (who happen to be my friends) that my preaching is Biblical (because I use the Bible), on target, and effective. I will always be striving to grow and improve as a preacher and follower of Jesus, but I believe I am already competent as a preacher of the Gospel. (I have seen some of your other beliefs, so I am not impressed)

It is hard for me not to take a sarcastic tone in light of the events that have transpired. The lies and manipulations, the hurtful words, the pettiness over things like our not acknowledging a postcard. It is all unbelievable at times. I read through my concerns, concerns that I still have today regarding your preaching and the leadership of University Christian Church. But I must wipe the dust off of my feet and move on. Hopefully to a better place, but that is in the hands of God.

The Pastor's Letter - Part 2

Part one was yesterday's post. My musings are bolded.

After carefully reading your entire paper, spending considerable time in prayer about it, and discussing my preaching with our Elders and other ministers, I feel comfortable standing behind my comments as I intended them and as the vast majority of listeners apparently heard them. (So does Joel Osteen) I appreciate the time and thought that went into the responses in your paper; however, I do not intend to give rebuttal to them because I do not believe it would be a helpful process. (Since when is considering another point of view healthy anyway. Now what was that comment that Elder T made at our meeting, that the minister had responded to every point in my letter? But I don't really think it was the truth they were after anyway. I think it was more about being right and in charge.) As 2 Timothy 2:14 says, "...Warn them before God against quarreling about words; it is of no value, and only ruins the hearers." (It is quarreling because I have a different opinion and I don't agree with you? What about classroom discussion? Are you saying I should be warned? Why have you only picked out half a verse here? Isn't the real meaning of this passage about Paul reminding Timothy to focus on the gospel, and not on trivial words? And that is the very reason we came to talk to you!)

Frustrating! I do see a real comparison here to Joel Osteen and other prosperity gospel preachers. The whole idea that they are above reproach, and if they are confronted they just gather around them the very people who give him his power to form a hedge of protection. What about always being ready to give an answer for the hope that you have? There are other Scriptures that come to mind, but you don't really want to hear them now, do you?

The Pastor's Letter - Part 1

Over a year ago, we had spoken to our pastor regarding some questions we had about some things he had said in some messages. We met face to face in his office. Although the meeting seemed to start off on a defensive note, by the end of the meeting we left feeling positive, with an assurance that he would prayerfully consider our concerns and we would meet again.

About a week or so later, we received a letter from the pastor. Here is the beginning, my comments are bolded...

Letterhead states:
University Christian Church
Where Christ is the Master and People Matter

Dear Don and Paula,

I had promised to get back with you after reading your comments and praying about your concerns, (Yes, you did. This was both our understanding as we left the meeting.) and I thought a letter might be simpler than trying to schedule another meeting (although I am not opposed to meeting again with you if you still want to do so after reading this). (Reading between the lines, I am sending a letter because I really don't want to give you an opportunity to talk with me. My hope is that after reading this, you will not return.)

Let me begin by thanking you for having the integrity and courage to share your concerns directly with me, rather than going to a third party. (because that would require much more damage control.) That is the Biblical approach, (So what part of the Biblical approach involves sending a letter instead of dealing with someone face-to-face?) but so often not what people choose to do. (Like your choices and the choices of the eldership, for example?) It was difficult and painful for me to hear and read your perception of my preaching, but it also challenged me to scrutinize myself even more than usual. Such an exercise can be quite healthy from time to time. (Personal scrutiny is your answer to this? "Let me see if I am okay, yup, I'm fine.")

There you have the first 2 paragraphs. There is more to come.

Kicked to the Curb - Part 6

HOW WELL THEY LISTEN!

I was told that they had listened to me. Some meetings had taken place. I was told that they cared about me. I was told that my beliefs were a problem. Elder T: So we've listened., but until we agree to your viewpoint, we haven't listened." So I asked the question, one that would be easy to answer if they indeed had done all this listening to me, "Do you even know what my viewpoint is?" Their was a brief pause and then Elder T responded, "From what I understand is, you believe that we shouldn't be going out and working for God's kingdom." Those who know me, who have read my blog, who have listened would know that is absurd. It's called antinomianism, and I do not hold to that belief. But I did not want to cloud this issue, so I told him, "That's totally incorrect, and that is what I mean." I was then asked, What is my viewpoint? So I continued, "My viewpoint is that when we do things, when we work, it's not because we are told to work, it is because we have such a desire in our heart to honor and worship Christ and we see him as beautiful as he is, and that our work is a response to his grace and not his grace is a response to our work. And that is what I hear a lot of in that pulpit. (That his grace is a response to our work. Kind of a watered down Joel Osteen approach. Smile!)

I was asked by Elder G, "Do you think we believe in works-based salvation here?" I responded, "I don't think you think that, but yes, I do." Elder G, "How?" Response, "Because if you listen 90% of the sermons content, it is about what to do, and 10% or less is about why to do it, when it should be the other way around."

So, if I am wrong, I am wrong. More conversation ensued, but it mostly rehashed the same ideas. Eventually, the meeting ended with them asking me to let them know my decision within 2 weeks. We haven't been back since.

And we haven't gotten a postcard either. At least they got that right.

Kicked to the Curb - Part 5

Elder T: "What we are seeing is every Sunday you have a problem or critique of the sermon, and that to me seems out of, way out.  ...You're a critiquer" (Critiquer, is that a word, or did he make that up?) "As I see it, you're not teachable." (If by teachable you mean blindly following whatever you want to lay out before me without questioning, then yes, I am unteachable. But as a teacher, I know that one of the important elements of a good teacher is the ability to respond to and answer the questions of my students. A teacher's goal is to guide students to the truth, now shove it down their throats.

Can you see Paul saying this to the Bereans. "Hey, you guys, stop critiquing my message and just agree, would ya? We gotta have some more unity here! You, the guy with the beige tunic, one more question like that and you are outta here! Now open your scrolls to..."

I turned the tables by saying that I could say the same of them. Elder G asked, "You don't think we're teachable? I asked, "Tell me how you have been teachable?" Elder T responded, "Well, we've been listening to Steve, his preaching. We listen to others who teach us in class." So, listening to one man preach, and his disciples teach in Sunday School makes you a broad-minded individual? Again, this borders on pure arrogance. It's like saying you know how to swim because you have been wadding in the kiddie pool, and the big pool is attached to it. I was asked why I said they were unteachable. I replied , "I am saying it because of the same reason you say it about me. You say I am unteachable because I don't listen to you. (And I don't. Not because I consider myslef unteachable, but because in all of our conversations, they have yet to teach or discuss anything. All they want to do is shut me up by crying "unity" and telling me to get in line. That is not teaching.) I read a lot of books, I read my Bible, I feel like I am very teachable. I feel like I have grown more in the last year and a half than I have ever grown in my life. And it's challenging and it is difficult to sit here in this position to say, you know what, maybe you guys are wrong." I was interrupted by Elder T at this point. He asked if I ever ask myself that question. I responded, "Absolutely, I ask myself that question every day, because I went through Bible college and I went to the Christian Church and have been in it for a long time, and for me to start questioning these things and to feel like maybe we are off by a little bit or maybe we're off by a lot. And really when I started to come to that conclusion and I wanted some answers, basically  I was told nobody wants to listen to you, nobody wants to hear it."

What I would like to add: And I want to thank-you. Because you did not respond, I went in search of answers on my own. I read my Bible, listened to the sermons of pastors that I respect, continued to read books that would stretch me. And it has been awesome. It is what has brought me to this point where I can look you in the eye and mot be ashamed of what I believe. It is what helps me to see through the veneer of Christianity that lays on you. It is what brings me to pray for you, that God might soften your hearts to hear and to listen. It is what has brought me to understand that the joy of knowing God is not dependant upon my circumstance or level of comfort. Thank-you so much. I thought for a long time that God would open your hearts, at least to a point that we could work together. But now I see that maybe God did this for my growth and perhaps as a means of holding you accountable someday. That is all in His court. I still pray that He will mold you to be more in His image, something I pray for myself and my family as well.

Kicked to the Curb - Part 4

I was given 2 options.

1.  "Repent of this critical attitude that is leading to divisiveness, could lead to divisiveness, and come join with us, be supportive of the leadership and Steve, grow with us, and help us further God's kingdom"

2.  Or, we'd like you to go to another church, a place that you can worship and be happy.

And I was generously given 2 weeks to reply.

I questioned if they were asking or telling me to leave. I was given the following analogy:

Elder T: "You're a teacher, if you have a disruptive student in your class my hunch is that you tell this student, 'Here's the expectations for you to stay in this class. If you don't fill those expectations, I'm going to send you to the Principal's office"

I asked for the specific expectations, because I did not want to go to the Principal's office!

1.  Stop the critical attitude of Steve's preaching, to him and to other people. That you try to join us in fellowship, and that you be involved in the work of the kingdom here. That critical attitude could lead to division and that is the big concern.

I then asked, "So if I don't agree with something that has been said, then I don't have the right to talk about it, is that what you are saying? Because that is all that I have done. I found out that the problem was that I was talking to others in the congregation and not keeping it within Elder T., Elder G and the pastor. But they knew there were concerns and questions, and they never sat down to discuss them. They would say that we did, because we did meet, but every time it was a meeting to do damage control. So discussing theology is out-of-bounds, unless done in their presence and only their presence. They say that their desire is to protect the flock. But if that is true, then why did some of the elders compliment my teaching at the Journeymen meeting? Why, after all the discussions have they not come up to me and told me where my toughts are unbiblical? Why, at our breakfast meeting did Elder S state, "I can't argue with your thoughts, but this is not good for the church." Really? So now being a wolf is not a matter of false teaching, it is just a matter of any teaching that we don't want to listen to? I recall my mentioning the name of Francis Chan at one of the meetings with the pastor. His response was, "He's always capping on the church." So because Chan finds some inconsistencies in the church, we should discount what he says? And they look at me as arrogant, but they refuse to see anything they do as being able to be scrutinized.

As I continue to rehash this episode, it makes me sad. I feel that I need to express myself somewhere, and if others read it, so be it. I can back up what I say, they can't because much of it is made up. Where is the alleged response from the pastor to everyone of my questions and concerns? He said the pastor sent an e-mail to me and he received a copy. I would love to see it. But again, that goes to the whole idea that the brute squad did not confront me on Biblical terms, allowing me to talk to any who heard what I said, and not allowing me to invite others to the meeting who were there and could tell what they heard. But rules don't matter if they don't work in your favor. This is their idea of unity?

Kicked to the Curb - Part 3

The charge: Divisiveness.

Elder T: "First of all, when (Elder G) and (the pastor) and  I met with you, you said you had your concerns, and you were keeping those concerns between us."

That meeting took place in October, and now it is February. Has anyone bothered to talk to me since that meeting? As a matter of fact, when Elder S came to visit after we had indicated we probably should leave, he invited the pastor who said he did not want to come. Then, when we did meet again at the request of my wife, he was upset because we had not changed our position. I guess time does not heal everything. I guess as long as they can keep a lid on things, all is well. The lid is on gentlemen, God have mercy on you.

So, it is divisive to ask questions, it is divisive to talk about things that frustrate you in small group, it is okay to know there are concerns and never talk about them, it is okay to bully people into submission, and when they won't submit to kick them to the curb. All in the name of conformity unity. Is this real Christianity?

I guess that is one reason I love to listen to Matt Chandler, Tim Keller, Francis Chan, etc. They are not afraid of confrontation. They confront me everytime I listen to them. They are not worried about how the audience might take their message, they are more concerned about how does their message glorify God.

I guess if you go by their definition of being divisive, Jesus was divisive too. He confronted people. He let the rich young ruler walk away. He told Nicodemus that unless he was born of the water and the Spirit he would not see the kingdom of God. He pronounced woes upon the religious leaders. He angered them with his words. Or the Holy Spirit. He slayed Annanias and Sapphira. Dead. He put the fear of God into the people. Couldn't he have just told them to get along?

Is all that God demands of us is to attend church, get along at a superficial level, give some of our income, and smile while doing it? Oh, and invite people to come to church so they can do it too? What does the Scripture mean, “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as you are. (Matt 23:15)

Kicked to the Curb - Part 2

So they decided that they were right and I was wrong. Even though, they don't know my position, because they have never talked TO me, they have only talked AT me. There was never any discussion involving me. Just their own amongst themselves. Probably went something like this...

Elder T: So, what do you think of this whippersnapper, coming in and challenging the pastor's messages. This pastor has been here what, 7 or eight years now? Surely we couldn't be wrong that long.

Elder G: You know it. I don't care if I have talked to him and find some of his thoughts interesting. He actually has the audacity to disagree with the pastor!

Elder L: But perhaps, to be on the safe side, we should listen to one of the pastor's sermons with a more critical eye.

(After listening to a sermon)

Elder G: Well, that does it. He says the same wonderful things that he always says. What a spirit-inspired genius. I couldn't have said it better myself. Well, maybe just a little bit better, but I have more important work to do for God.

Elder T: Well said G. We didn't even have to open a Bible to agree with the pastor, it just made so much sense to me. And the pastor put all of those proof-texts in so I didnt have to anyway.

Elder G: Yes, just like he does when he answers questions in Bible studies. He can quote them almost as good as I can.

Elder T: So there we have it, we agree with ourselves, no need to discuss anything. And anyone who does not agree with us, well, they are just divisive. We have it nailed, no problems here. Well, except when someone disagrees with us. Then we have to shut them up to protect the poor little sheeps in our flock.

Elder L: That's sheep. The plural of sheep is sheep.

Elder G: Gentlemen, let's not disagree. Here, give me that dictionary. (Writes in an "s" after the entry for sheep.) See? We just all need to agree.

Elder L: My apologies. How could I have not seen that before?

Well, maybe that is not exactly how it happened, but I think it is close.

Kicked to the curb - Part 1

I have been kicked to the curb. The elders of the church I previously attended have asked that I repent or stop attending. Repent of what, you ask? Good question.

At our meeting, everyone was friendly and introductions were offered, but not needed. After a quick prayer, they got down to business. I am a terrible person because I do not fully embrace the pastor's preaching. I have actually had the nerve to ask questions.

I was confronted with the evidence. Did I say evidence? I mean with the accusations. I was accused of sending several e-mails. When I asked if I could see them, none were produced. I did admit to handing the pastor a typed letter addressing some of my concerns. I was chastised because of the length of the letter, 6 pages. Perhaps I should have asked the page limit for such inquiries, but I don't think it was really the length that mattered. It was the fact that I did not embrace the pastor's messages.

I was also told that the elders listened to me, then went back to listen to the pastor's messages more critically, and they affirmed everything he said. Nice of them to do that, I suppose. No need to sit down with me and open a Bible. No need to present evidence of the accusations they were making. They could have just had the meeting without me, and e-mailed me the results, because you can't confront accusations that exaggerated and you can't question witnesses that are not allowed to attend the meeting. The inquisition gets to make the rules and don't go talking about Biblical discipline. They will decide when and how to apply the Bible.

There, now that we understand the rules, let's play.

Go ahead, make my day.

I was asked last Sunday by our elders to "find another church" if I do not "repent" of my critical attitude and "join them in fellowship."

This is wrong on so many levels, it is almost commical, were it not so deadly serious.

THE 411

I was asked to meet with the elders of our church last Sunday to discuss the topic of "unity." At least they called it unity, I call it conformity. They are concerned that my questioning of the pastor's behavior and actions could be divisive. I agree! If people really knew what he was preaching and how he was behaving, they might want to do something about it!

My previous posts have detailed some of the issues I have had, so I will not go into specific details here. What I want to talk about here is the behavior of the elders, and how it mirrors that of the pastor. One of the things about unity is, it seeks the truth. Conformity, on the other hand believes that it already possesses the truth and everyone else should just fall in line with it. Bring on the brute squad!

This meeting was wrong on so many levels. First, it did not follow Biblical patterns of discipline. I was accused of saying criticizing things about the minister at our small group meeting. (Apparently I am not aware of the "no criticizing" clause in the New Testament.) I was not allowed to bring in witnesses who heard what was said, nor did they present witnesses to accuse me. No one spoke to me face to face (which would have been the first step according to Matthew 18.) They just spoke about what they had heard, and took it as gospel truth. (Yes, I see the irony of calling it "gospel truth.") The people I invited from the small group were not allowed to attend. Why weren't the accusers reprimanded for their inappropriate behavior? Why weren't they told to talk to me first, in accordance with Matthew 18? Maybe it is because unity follows the rules,conformity makes its own rules.

I was also accused of talking about the minister with another member of the congregation, which I admit I did. Two men, having dinner, discussing their faith and church. A private conversation that was not intended to go outside of that meeting. Should not people have friends with which they can discuss their victories and or frustrations? This person, however, chose to speak to the pastor about my concerns. My hope is that he did this out of love, and not out of any other desire. But the pastor apparently took this conversation to the elders, and they used this to say that I was stirring up dissention. Again, I invited the person I spoke to to attend the meeting, but the chairman of the elders said it was a closed meeting, and he was not allowed to attend. But they are in good company, Jesus was not allowed to face his accusers either.

I was told that I am a "critiquer." (I don't view that as a bad thing, although I know that they do.) I have criticisms of the pastor's sermons. I know that I have a different point of view than most others. My issue is that everytime I tried to discuss any concerns, these concerns were never addressed, I was only told things like, "stop being critical," "you are divisive," or "if you don't support the pastor's preaching, you should find another church." Yet when I ask them what about my perspective goes against the Bible, I don't get an answer. Is weighing what the pastor says wrong? Paul didn't seem to mind this, in fact, he commended the Berean Christians for studying the Scriptures to see if what he said was true. I guess if they had any problems, they just kept them to themselves. I made the mistake of actually trying to talk to the pastor about my concerns.

I was told at the meeting that the minister had addressed each of my concerns in an e-mail, and that this e-mail had been forwarded to each of the elders as well. I stated that I had not received such an e-mail, and asked if I could see a copy. They did not have one, and (of course) the minister was not at the meeting.The only thing I remembered getting was a letter saying that he would not address my concerns because he did not want to "quarrel about words," and that if we were not "confident of his preaching" we should find another place to worship. If Paul did not command such an attitude, how can they?

I suppose I could go on, and probably will at some later time to highlight some of the other frustrations I have felt during this meeting and episode of my life, believe me, there have been more. But I think for now, all I can say is, thanks for making my day. Our time at this church has been a difficult one. Although the pastor spoke of treating people with grace in the sermon that morning, I told the elders that we had experienced very little grace during our time there. Although we felt that God wanted us there for a season, there comes a time when you have to look at your options.

If the leaders are that regimented and blind toward what they are doing, if the pastor is that unconcerned and unwilling to listen, how could or would I anticipate that any persons in the congregation would understand or be drawn closer to Christ by continuing to attend there? I believe that I am right in my understandings, and have the Scriptures to back them up. But I also believe that to continue to confront at this point would be a losing proposition not only for me, but for the church. As Scripture says, the weeds will not be taken out until the harvest. To uproot them now would damage the crop. So I guess I just need to let the weeds grow. Right? Unless the Lord says otherwise, that is where I stand at this time.

The latest

We met at the church at 8 PM. My wife had asked to speak to the pastor. He said that he would have to run that idea by the elders first. (?) Then we were given some meeting options, and chose to meet with the pastor and our shepherding elder on that Thursday evening.

I agree to attend, but I wanted my wife to know that I did not want to get in the way of her expressing what was on her heart. How she had been hurt by the pastor's "suggestion" that we would be happier at another church. How in her current state, caring for her dying father at our home, and other struggles, and feeling alone and rejected by the church. How the messages she hears are a drain on her, both because they are nothing but a list of do's and don't, and because the very things spoken of in many a message have not been shown to us in the behavior of the leadership. She spoke of her hurt and frustration, sometimes to the point of tears. It was hard to watch, but I knew that I had to let her say her peace. And I am proud of her, because I know how difficult it was for her, she hates confrontation.

For the most part, the pastor said little. At one point, he defended himself, saying that he had sent a postcard to let us know that he was praying for us. But then he stated that he was hurt, because we had not acknowledged receiving the postcard. Really? I guess we blew that one.

After she was finished, I voiced a few concerns that I had. But I was again reminded that anything that the pastor says from the pulpit is off-limits. Although our shepherd offered to get together with me if I felt the need to discuss things further. But the pastor was just too busy a man to be bothered with such things. I took him up on the offer as we concluded the meeting.

BREAKFAST

We agree to meet for breakfast on a Saturday. I really felt that I was able to express some of my concerns. I spoke of how the sermons were focused on how to live, and not the why. But the how is supposed to be an effect of the why. If we never hear the cause of our actions, but only hear what we are doing wrong, that only builds frustration. Most people know what kind of behavior is expected of them, what they need to hear is how to change it. We talk about life-change, but then present a message of, "Here are the changes you need to make." What about the gospel? What about the beauty of Christ? I spoke of the past Sunday's message, one in which a crippled beggar had been healed. Did Jesus do this just to teach us a moral lesson? Is it really just about choosing action over apathy? Or choosing to give glory to God? Not that these are not good things, but they are nothing without the heart that goes with it. (1 Cor 13:1-3) What did Peter do after the man was healed? Did he tell the people to go out and be better people, or did he preach a gospel message to draw people to Christ? (If you don't know, the answer is the latter, read that rest of Acts 4)

I was told that he could not see a flaw in my reasoning. But, our pastor was not about to change the way he preaches. I was then told that the pastor feels that I am attacking him, and that for the sake of my wife and children, I need to adjust my attitude. I need to listen to the sermons and see what I can glean from them. I am the problem.

SUNDAY

Just to let you know, I went home and thought about his response. Quite frankly, the more I did, the more I could not accept it. I saw him on Sunday. I thanked him for meeting with me for breakfast. I also told him that I thought he was wrong, and I asked him how, in light of the sermon that had just been preached, could he feel that his reaction was appropriate? He said he would pray for me.

Maybe I'll get a postcard too.

Last piece of background info?

As time went on, my wife and I had many opportunities to talk about church. There were definitely some questions we had about what we were seeing and hearing. Not questions of doctrine as much as questions raised by the Holy Spirit in our hearts. We mentioned to our pastor that we in November we were interested in placing our membership, but that we had some questions and concerns. He said that the holidays were a busy time, but he would get back to us. That meeting finally took place in February.

When we showed up this time, the pastor seemed to have a somewhat defensive posture as we entered the room. We started with some small talk again, but it was awkward. I asked if I could pray, and we did. So then we got down to business. I had prepared a paper listing several of my concerns, many of them being over statements made in sermons, hoping that it would be a springboard for discussion. He was surprised, and said that no one had ever questioned his preaching before. He also stated that he went over his messages with his preaching group, and they did not have a concern with anything he had to say either. He pointed out that one of them held a Ph.D.

When we left the meeting, the pastor assured us that he would take our concerns seriously, and that he would discuss this with others and we would meet again. That meeting did not happen. What did happen is this: As time went on, my wife and I continued to discuss what we needed to do in regard to membership. We decided that even though things were not perfect or resolved, we needed to stop dragging our feet and put our membership in. I stopped our pastor after a Wednesday night Bible study and told him our intentions. He asked if we had received a letter from him yet. We had not, I told him. He said we might want to make our decision after reading that letter.

THE LETTER

On Thursday we received that letter. In it, Steve stated his appreciation for our courage in confronting him, and the manner in which we did it. However, he also quoted 2 Timothy 2:14, "Warn them before God against quarreling about words; it is of no value, and only ruins those who listen." He also went on to state that if we could not have confidence in his preaching, that perhaps we would be more comfortable at another church.

Really? We had bared our souls and made ourselves vunerable again, and this was the response of a church where "Christ is the Master and People Matter."

On Saturday of that same week, I sent him a strongly worded response, and offered to meet with him and anyone he felt appropriate. He responded quickly, asking me to meet with him and 2 elders that Monday following Journeymen, a group I was a part of at that time. On Sunday, we transferred our membership because we did not believe that our issue should keep us from where we felt we needed to be.

THE MEETING

The meeting, in my opinion, was a formality at best and an intimidation at worst. None of the issues addressed in my letter were mentioned, only that the letter was too long and therefore inappropriate. I am not even sure if the elders present read the letter. The bottom line message of the meeting in my opinion was "we just need to get along."

I went home and tried to digest the meeting. I tried to honestly look at myself and my wife. Were we causing trouble by having questions? Were we a problem? Is this what church should be like? Is this a place we can comfortably worship God?

THE VACATION
It was shortly after this development that we decided to take a "vacation" from UCC. Once again we felt we needed a break to pray, check out some other places again, and sort things out. We ended up coming back mainly because we had forged some friendships, and were not ready to give up on them. Maybe the pastor and some of the leaders don't want to deal with things, but we can still worship there because that is about God and not people. Perhaps you have seen me during services now, putting in my headphones during the message. In all honesty, I find it difficult to listen to someone who refuses to dialogue with me. I know that some have seen me. To this point no one has said a word. Perhaps you will choose to dialogue with me. Or maybe this will help create a dialogue with the pastor or leaders. Or maybe I will be asked to leave. All I know is that I feel a responsibility to say what is on my heart. Anyone care to listen? Does anyone care?

Still More Background Info

So after leaving our church of 8 years we visited some churches in our city. We tried not to be too picky, realizing that there is no such thing as a perfect church. We also did not want to be unaware in our approach either. We tried churches within our current denomination and without. There are certain doctrinal issues that play an important role for me. I believe that the Bible reveals that baptism is important to God. All of the conversions that I read of in Scripture are followed soon after by baptism. Also, communion is another thing I feel strongly about. While I am not sure that the Bible teaches that it MUST be done every Sunday, I feel there is great value in practicing sincere communion on a regular and frequent basis.

After a few frustrating visits at various nearby churches, we were invited to attend a church in Muncie, about a 20 minute drive for us. Location is important, as the farther the church the harder it is to get connected. And while we did not feel that this church was perfect, as my wife and I talked about it, we both felt that God was tugging at our hearts to put some roots down here for a while. One of the issues that concerned me was I felt that the sermons were weak. They relied much more on presentation than on content. The pastor later confirmed this, in my opinion, when he taught a class on communicating. Although I was not present for the class, I received the outline and handouts. A lot of emphasis was placed on dress, use of humor, etc., and very little on content. I have heard a lot of speakers in my days, and for me the ones that have the greatest impact are those who have a passion for their topic, and not those who might otherwise be considered the most effective communicators. (1 Cor 1:17 "For Christ did not send me to baptize but to preach the gospel, and not with words of eloquent wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power.")

One of the bright spots in this congregation was the people. They seemed friendly and sincere. Another positive was our Sunday School class. Our first Sunday there, we were greeted by the preacher. Somehow in that first week, I cannot recall for sure if it was via letter or direct communication, we were told that the pastor would like to follow up and visit with us soon. Four weeks later I mentioned to my friend my disappointment that this had never occurred. The following Sunday pastor told me he wanted to meet with us, and could we schedule a time to come to his office. Coincidence? I don't know. But he asked us to schedule an appointment to meet with him in his office, and we did.

We showed up for our first meeting. It felt a bit awkward for some reason. We sat down and had some small talk. Talk turned to church membership. We were very upfront, as we explained with some detail what our previous experience had been like, and how we were a bit gun shy about jumping right in without having a real knowledge of the church yet. We were assured that University Christian Church was not that kind of place. I had my doubts, but I wanted to keep an open mind.

The pastor shared a little bit about his history with the church, and the church's history as well. I still don't know all of the facts, but the church had just been through a split prior to his coming, and had had some difficulties in the past. I think that explains a lot about their current demeanor. Anything that hints of being a problem seems to be swept away, and all is handshakes and smiles. A facade is put up that paints such a pretty picture. (Mt 23:27 comes to mind).  Is there an elephant in the room? I don't see no stinkin' elephant!

My wife and I left that meeting and we talked with one another about how we felt. We agreed that we were not ready to become members yet, but that we still felt that this was a place God wanted us to be for at least the present time, although we were not sure why. I jokingly said that maybe it was because God was punishing us for something. Bad theology, good joke.

More Background Info

As I stated in the previous post, my prior understanding of what it meant to be a Christian left a lot of my questions unanswered. Whenever I got into a situation where I struggled with what was happening in my life, I just kept telling myself to hang in and have faith. It's not that that is not good advice, but I think it caused me a lot of pain and suffering not having a better understanding of why things were going like they were.

One of the prevalent thoughts in most Christians today is that when things are going badly, I just need to try harder and when things are going well, God is pleased with me. But that is not what the Bible teaches. Take a look at many of the Bible greats, and you will see that they suffered, even when they were trying hard. John the Baptist took a Nazarite vow, and lived a life of unparalleled devotion to God. Jesus called him great (Matt 11:11), and what did it get him? He was imprisoned and beheaded. Ouch! Peter, according to tradition, was crucified up-side-down. Stephen was stoned. Paul was beaten, ship-wrecked, snake bitten and more. Are we really going to say that they just needed to try harder?

I had it backwards. I thought that my behavior was wrong and that if I could correct it, I would merit more grace. The reality was, I needed more grace so I could grow from my circumstances. As Tullian Tchividjian says in his book, Jesus + Nothing = Everything, "Christian growth, in other words, doesn't happen by first behaving better, but by believing better-believing in bigger, deeper, brighter ways what Christ has already secured for sinners." Wow! That is so different from what I have been taught, and have heard preached, and continue to hear being preached.

Today, many call themselves Christ-Followers because the label Christian has a negative connotation to many. But the problem is not in what we call ourselves as much as it is in what we really are. For many of us it is not about following Christ as much as it is about gaining heaven. So we do the things we think Christians should do. We go to church, tithe, abstain from certain behaviors. While these can all be good things, they are nothing in themselves! (1 Cor. 13:1-3) The real question must be, Do we see God as revealed in Jesus Christ as beautiful? Do we see Him as the Pearl of Great Price or as a Great Treasure? Is our teaching and preaching about the beauty of Christ, seeking to draw us into a relationship that will change us, or is it about the changes that we must make so He will find us acceptable? If it is about the latter, then does not the Gospel lose its beauty? I am not saying that our behavior does not matter, I am saying that real change comes from an internal love for God rather than my desire to please Him and somehow gain His favor.

As much as I hate to admit it, this is a fairly new way of thinking for me, but the more I live in it, the more I see the freedom that is promised in the Bible.  Our Youth Pastor touched on this idea in his sermon the first Sunday in January, when he talked about how he struggled to keep up with a reading plan. He would begin one, only to look back later and see that many of the dates had no entries. I am not trying to slam him here or slam Bible Reading plans for that matter. But there is no one size fits all for Christian growth. Reading plans are great for some, and a struggle for others. No one gets into heaven because of the number of Bible chapters read in a lifetime. We should promote reading the Bible, but not out of guilt or necessity, but out of the passion that burns within us to know more about the God we love. Look at the picture that David paints in Psalm 42:1, "As a deer pants for flowing streams, so pants my soul for you, O God." This is not a pretty picture of a doe taking a drink from a pond, but rather a deer that is panting because of a lack of water, and so the only thing on its mind is to find water and satisfy its thirst. And until it finds that water, it has no other thought but to obtain that water. Are we thirsty for God's word, or are we more like the shopper who is walking down the grocery aisle after a full meal, when the stock-piled shelves have little appeal?

Background Info

We began attending UCC around August of 2010. Prior to attending UCC, we attended another Christian Church near our home in Anderson. We had been there about 8 years. It was in our last 3 years there that things began to change for us. So many things were going on, but I just will share some highlights.

• God was doing something in my heart. I had been asked to be a deacon at the church. I went to the meeting with the pastor, and got some information about the office. I later went to him in person to ask a question. I asked him, "What was the difference between me as a deacon and me as a member, besides that deacons serve communion on Sunday?" He answered, "Basically, nothing." Since I was already being asked to serve communion due to a shortage of servers, I decided to respectfully decline the offer. I didn't feel I needed a title that had no other meaning.
• A year later, I was asked to serve as an elder. This time, I accepted, believing that this was something I should do.
• I was also helping to teach one of the adult Sunday School classes during this time.

It was during this time that God had placed some things in my path that would begin to alter the way that I thought about religion. I had started a blog and was reading other blogs as well. I was introduced to a whole new way of thinking about church and what the Gospel truly is. Perhaps this would be a good time to point out that I have a 4 year seminary degree in Bible and Christian Education, and had served in full-time Youth Ministry and had been an interim preacher on a few occasions.

I was introduced to Reformed theology. I was introduced to theology for that matter. I had read the Bible, taken the Bible courses in college, attended seminars, heard countless sermons, but never had I gone much below the surface, and had never really been challenged to do so. As a result, my first marriage failed and I lost my position as a Youth Minister. I ended up working in the transportation industry for about 6 or 7 years, and am currently in education as an elementary teacher. I never let go of my faith in God, but I had some serious questions that my prior level of understanding never did answer. More on that later.

One of the issues that came to the surface at our past church during this time period was our theology and teaching. The church was working through one of the 40 days of purpose books. It was the S.H.A.P.E. manual by Eric Rees. I began to question a lot of the statements in this book. One example: on page 34, he has a fill in the blank that goes like this...

Remember: our strengths and abilities are there to show off his greatness and magnitude. 

Doesn't that sound great? It's like God really needs me to pull this thing off, isn't it? And I want to feel needed. But then another way of filling in those blanks occurred to me. It goes like this...


Remember: our weaknesses and in inabilities are there to show off his greatness and magnitude.

Isn't that more in line with what the Bible says? (2 Cor. 12:9,10 comes to mind) and so I started asking questions. The responses I got were varied. Some at the church agreed, and wanted to give it some more thought. Others said I was misinterpreting the S.H.A.P.E. book. Some said they felt uncomfortable at times with the teaching in the S.H.A.P.E.book, but were not sure why. Our pastor said that while he saw no problem with the book, he did not feel it was something that he would use again. The chairman of the elders said his group had some questions about some of the things in the S.H.A.P.E. book, but they did not resolve them. One of the associate pastors told me that he did not have the time to debate theology with me.

Time went on and the issue went away, although it was never really resolved. The 40 days was over. It was also during this time that I had been asked to do an evaluation on the Youth Minister. Having been in a management position while working in the transportation industry, and having been in Youth Ministry, I agreed. My approach was simple. I came up with a questionnaire and had several people in various capacities respond. I then compiled the results and gave them to the eldership. Problem was, not all of the responses were complimentary, and a couple of elders felt that I had not handled the matter appropriately. Even though I had shared the responses with no one outside of the eldership, I was taken to task at our elder's retreat for the job I had done by one elder in particular. Later, at least two elders spoke to me independently sharing their support and even that they had similar concerns about the youth ministry. However,  the fact that they were unwilling to speak up in the meeting was very disappointing to me.

It was at this retreat where the largest struggle of all came to surface. Prior to the retreat, our bookkeeper had resigned. One of our elders had suggested that instead of just hiring a new bookkeeper, we add the responsibilities of an Executive Administrator to the job to create a full time position. He also stated that he would be interested in such a position. (This soon came to fruition.) The bulk of the retreat was spent discussing this idea, and how it would make our job as elders much easier. No goal setting, no vision casting, and little prayer. But we did use the pool and had some good food. As we were preparing to leave, and having our monthly elder's, the pastor made note of the fact that we had not spent much time in prayer during the retreat, but then qualified that by saying it was okay, because we were doing God's work.

I went home stunned and disappointed. I decided to tender my resignation. I was deeply hurt and wondered how I could be an effective elder under such circumstances. We also stopped attending there and began a search for a new place to worship. We did get a couple of e-mails (one from the pastor and one from the new Executive Administrator), and a phone call or two from some friends, but that was it. Is this what church was supposed to be? There was much to be thought through, and I believed that we needed some time and space to do that.

When we came to UCC, we shared our story with the pastor and one of the elders. We stated that we were wounded, and would probably be slow about making any commitments to the church. We shared how we had been challenged in our thinking of what church should be. We were assured that we would be welcomed and cared for at this church. I want to share how we were welcomed and cared for in future posts

Welcome to this site!

Let me begin by saying that it is not my intention to stir up controversy. Had that been my intention, I would have taken a much different route. My true desire here is to have a dialogue regarding what I believe and what others believe. This is something that has been denied to me up to this point.


My true desire here is to show my love and devotion to Jesus Christ, my Lord, Savior, and God. I hope to challenge those who would read here, and be challenged by interaction and discussion.


Proverbs 27:17  "Iron sharpens iron, and one man sharpens another."

 I don't mind those who disagree with me, and I hope others don't mind if I disgree with them. The one thing I hope that we can all agree upon is that we ultimately desire to uplift the name of Jesus, and bring glory to God the Father.