Mad Max - Part 1

 Yesterday in Sunday School we watched part 4 of Max Lucado's video series called "Glory Days." On this day we were watching part 4, called "Audacious Prayers."

Now I will be honest up front and say that I have not been impressed with what I have seen from the series. It reminds me a lot of the Joel Osteen types of messages. His mantra or chant at the front of each session bothers me as well, and reminds me a lot of what Mr. Osteen often does when he is preaching. But it seemed that yesterday reached new heights of audaciousness.

Mr. Lucado  was talking about  praying audacious prayers, and he was using the Book of Joshua  as his text. Specifically, Joshua 9 and 10 where Joshua is deceived by neighboring nation and later is called to help that same nation. He eventually gets into the place where Joshua prays to God for more time, and God causes the sun to stand still for a day.

Prior to getting into the meat of the message he speaks of Martin Luther, when apparently a co-worker of his became ill and Martin Luther prayed to God for his healing. According to Max, Martin attacked God using God's own weapons (Scripture). He also quoted Luther as saying,  “He must grant my prayer, if I was to henceforth put faith in his promises.” He also quoted Luther in another instance where he was praying for someone's recovery from illness, saying, “ for this I am praying, this is my will, and may my will be done, because I only seek to glorify the name of God.” 

Now I don't know how accurate these quotes are regarding what Luther said. I know that I would not want every word I have ever spoken to be written down. So I'm not addressing the fact that Luther may or may not have said these words, but what I am concerned about is Max's use of them. If  it is true that Luther said these words, do they present a means by which we should pray? Would it ever be okay to tell God that he must Grant a prayer request? And that if he didn't, we would no longer have faith in him? 

Lucado goes on to quote Hebrews 4:16. He read, "Let us then with confidence draw near to the throne of grace, and stay there, and stay there, and stay there, that we may receive mercy and find grace to help us in time of need." The bold part is added by Lucado, but for those not familiar with the passage, it might seem more like he is just emphasizing and restating what he believes is an important part of the message. The point I believe he wants to make is that we can go boldly before God. That seems a stretch to me from this passage. To me, being able to go with confidence has more to do with our not being afraid, and when we do we can experience God's love through the grace and mercy that God has for us.

This is why we fail at life change

If a church declares that the gospel is the most important message the world has ever known , and yet the gospel is not seen as the impetus and motivation for all the church offers, this disconnect is indicative of an unhealthy church personality or culture.

Chandler, Matt; Geiger, Eric; Patterson, Josh (2013-11-26). Creature of the Word: The Jesus-Centered Church (Kindle Locations 1460-1462). B&H Publishing Group. Kindle Edition. 

I find this to be the most powerful and convicting quote I have read this far.

Why does the church exist, if not to spread the gospel? Is there anything that would be a greater priority? But we do things without considering the full implication of the gospel message. We create programs and events to draw people in, thinking perhaps that we are in fact spreading the gospel, when the reality is that the gospel is no where to be found. At least not the dying to yourself and surrendering all to Jesus gospel. And why not? Because we are not making Jesus beautiful, but rather are attracting people to ourselves, our denomination, or our club. No wonder, when persecution comes, people abandon "their faith," because their faith was not in Jesus or His Father, but in the comfort, convenience, or attraction to a building, program, or group. The gospel was never a part of it.

Offerings are down, we need to grow the church. We need a new gym, time to call people to give sacrificially. There is room for more people in the seats, lets challenge folks to invite their co-workers, friends, and family to church. Ch_ _ ch, what is missing? U R.

C h _ _ c h . What is missing? The gospel. The beauty of a Savior who came to rescue me, at the cost of His own life when I did not deserve it. That is what is missing.

Can evangelism be taught?

Here is a line from a previous post found here that I thought warranted further comment.

Witness has changed from relationship to salesmanship.

What are we drawing people to, Jesus or something else?

Should people even need to take evangelism classes? If we need to be taught to share what we already have, do we really have it? Sure, we need to be solid in the foundations of our faith. But that is what the church should be preaching about every week.

What is evangelism? Sharing Jesus. Why do we do it? Because we love Him. How do we do it? It should be the overflow of a heart that loves Him. It is not about just getting people to come to church, nor is it about numbers or our success. It is not about winning an argument or having the most logical thought process. It should be a natural, a result of the faith that dwells in our heart.

But what do we see? We see smiling, soft-spoken people with huge churches, mega-book deals, and fat wallets. Kinda blows that narrow road thing out of the water, doesn't it? Many times we see such leaders fall, because it never really was about Jesus now, was it?

If we really want to solve some of the issues that plague the church, perhaps a return to relationship is in order. Perhaps a commitment is what is needed, and not a commercial.

If we look at Jesus, He was not the best salesman. He allowed the Rich Young Ruler to walk away. And isn't that the kind of person that most preachers or parishioners would not want to lose. Many times Jesus let people walk away. That is because he was not trying to sell them something. He offered to give them something that some wanted nothing to do with. And when that happened, he did not try to box them in with logic, or beat them over the head with morality. He simply let them walk away and continued to look for those who were broken or open to his message.

I don't think I've ever seen an evangelism class like that, have you?

Unity or Conformity?

Another post found while digging through the archives and dredging up the drafts. Just couldn't delete it...

Christ calls for us to be united. But what does unity mean? Does it mean that we don't rock the boat? Does it mean that we never complain or confront? What does unity mean?

I have put together a few thoughts. Please feel free to share yours.

Unity means harmony, conformity means one note.

• When everyone sings one note, it is easier to sing along, and harmony does takes effort. But it is harmony that makes the music beautiful.

Unity invites discussion, conformity demands you listen to it.

• Discussion can be difficult. What if someone asks a question I don't like? What if I don't know an answer or have to struggle through something? I might even have to grow...

Unity is accomplished out of love, conformity is commanded out of fear.

• There is a lot of control issues in the church. So many denominations, probably because when something gets difficult, we just leave or get kicked out. Is that the kind of love that God models for us? When the going gets tough, the tough get going...right out the door. (Sometimes with a shove)

Unity breeds compassion, conformity breeds contempt.

• If you are different, you get treated different. I think the book of James addresses this well. (Don't read it unless you want to feel bad. Just saying...)

Unity allows for differences, conformity demands compliance.

• When is the last time you saw a diverse church? Either in ethnicity, theology, etc. It's an anomoly, isn't it?

Unity comes from a clean inside, comformity looks good on the outside.

• Matthew 23:25 anyone?

Unity seeks truth, conformity seeks to be right.

• And only one can be right, right? And of course, it is me...

Unity comforts, conformity intimidates.

• Even when we see someone in error (that does not lead to death), should our response be to beat them into submission? Is that how Jesus worked? Sure, he was tough on some, but had great compassion for others. What made the difference? (Think about it)

Unity plays by the rules, conformity makes its own rules.

• Now, where is that found in the Bible? And doesn't this passage apply too?

Unity brings things to light, conformity hides things.

• This is kind of a dysfunctional thing. Are there any dysfunctional churches out there?

Unity considers the body, conformity considers the self.

• See that big toe? Do we really need him?

What about you> How do you see unity?

Unity is its own reward, conformity expects to be rewarded.

The Story

The church I attended last week was going through "The Story." It is a book written by Max Lucado. They are passing out the book, have the large posters up, and are preaching through it. Someone is making a lot of money somewhere, me thinks.

I was okay with the sermon. He was talking about Joseph and of the many trials that he went through, and how God was in complete control. Then he spoke of what was obviously a difficult trial he experienced. I am not sure if the child he spoke of was close to him, or if it were the child of someone in his congregation. In any event, in his illustration the child died. He then went on to say, "God did not do that, I could not worship a God who would do such a thing."

Read on in the story, because that is what God does to David's son. It is what he does to his own son. Dare we draw a line and say, "God, if you cross this line, I cannot worship you?" Did Joseph stop worshipping God because he was sold into slavery, accused of rape, put in prison, etc.? Was he not listening to his own sermon?

My brother used to say the same thing, I cannot worship a God who lets little children die. There is a fine line of difference between the two thoughts. In one, God is the cause. In the other, God watches helplessly. But I don't see the difference from a worship standpoint. If God is sovereign, then we should worship Him without reservation.

I think what we do is water down God, rather than lift Him up.

I think of my daughter, stricken with an awful disease. Currently she is under care and doing okay. We don't know what the long-term will bring. There are many complications in our life because of her health. Did God bring this on her? Even if not, He could remove it. So am I justified in ceasing to worship Him? David knew better. He prayed for his son, but to no avail. God took his son's life. And what did David do after his son was dead? He worshiped God.

When are we going to start preaching that truth?

Disconnected

I haven't posted lately for a couple of reasons. The first being a lot has been going on that has kept me very busy. But that one really doesn't fly because even when I am busy, I usually can find the time to post something.

The second reason is the real one. It is a feeling I have had of being disconnected. We have been looking for a church to attend that is closer to home, and it is not going well. I have this feeling that I just don't belong.

I read an article today in Rachel Held Evan's blog, and while I don't agree with everything she believes in, I can relate to her. In fact, while we differ in some aspects of what we believe, it is not our beliefs that we are looking for in a church, but rather acceptance and the ability to hold or express a belief that may not be popular or mainstream and not feel like a leper.

When Jesus came, the "church" was very closed-minded. They wouldn't even accept him, and a large part of the reason for that was because of who he was willing to accept. Yet at the same time, he was able to accept others without compromising who he was or what he believed. I think a lot of what we have in the conservative church is a fear of having people believe we condone something just because we accept and love those who practice such things. Jesus did not fear that, he loved and accepted all. But he did it without compromising his beliefs, something that I feel the liberal church errs in.

So I am not liberal. I believe homosexuality and abortion are wrong. But that should not stop me from loving them or fellowshipping with them. And I am not conservative, because I am not afraid of fellowshipping with people who do not agree with me. I just don't fit in.

Jesus did not fit in either. Is this what it means to be like him?

The Pastor's Letter - Conclusion

All in all, if you just read through his letter, it is amazingly well crafted. He gets his point across without saying anything that would likely get him into trouble on its face value. He "thought a letter might be simpler than trying to schedule another meeting." How considerate on its face value. Thanking us for our integrity and courage. Sharing his pain. It almost seems as if he has had a change of heart. But then the stonewall defense. My friends stand behind me, you misinterpreted or misheard my message, that wasn't what I intended to stay...and then the wall goes up. "I do not intend to give a rebuttal..." Can't lose a game if you won't get on the court!

Then more defenses, but not of his message, just of himself. I spend time and effort preparing, researching, crafting my sermons. I have my message vetted by the same people who always vet them, they have doctorates, I take far more precaution than the average preacher, etc. All in defense of him and his integrity, nothing about the message because that would not be "a helpful process."

So an analogy. I go to a doctor, who diagnosis a problem, say cancer. I go for a second opinion, and this doctor says it is not cancer, but a lesser, easier treatable disease. I go back to my doctor to discuss the other diagnosis. Instead of considering the possibility or even hearing the other doctors reasons, he simply says that he will not give rebuttal to that doctor, to do so would not be helpful. He warns me that the potential of quarreling with him could have life-threatening consequences! He then goes on to tell me that he takes his job seriously, reads medical journals, discusses his cases with other, even more qualified doctors than himself. He talks about how long I have been his patient, and doesn't that count for something? But he never reexamines me or listens to the reasons for the other doctor's diagnosis. I am supposed to have total trust in him because he says he cares for me. But his actions say that he cares for himself, and that he is hurt and angry about my checking with another doctor. So what do I do? Do I trust him or the other doctor? In reality, I probably do neither. Instead, I start researching some for myself, and probably even get a third or fourth opinion. My health is too important for me to lay at the feet of some quack who, though knowledgeable of some things, clearly does not have my best interests at heart.

So is my spiritual health. So, if it walks like a duck, and talks like a duck...you know the rest. Quack!

The Pastor's Letter - Part 5

The previous 4 parts are my previous 4 posts. My musings are in bold type.

I hope and pray that knowing where I stand on these issues will allow you to interpret my comments in the future in a way that you find harmonious with Scripture. (Sorry, I don't base my interpretation of Scripture based on knowing the person who is speaking. We all fall short, and no one knows it all. And it is sad that you would even expect this. At one time, you commended us for our searching of the Bible, as did the Berean Christians. Apparently, however, if we do not do so and then quickly and blindly come to the conclusion that you are right, then it is a problem.) I pray that you will now be able to be encouraged, deified, challenged and changed as a result of God working through my efforts in preaching. (Actually, because of how you handled this, even less so.) I am hoping you will be able to embrace me and my preaching just as you have embraced the other aspects of our ministry here at UCC. (Of course that is what you are hoping will happen, because then you won't have to deal with any problems in your perfect church, full of perfect people who all agree with you apparently.) If so, that will be a wonderful answer to prayer!

But if after this you still do not have confidence in me or my preaching, then-sadly-we are probably not the church for you. (So, there is no room for disagreement with the pastor in "your" church. No questioning, no discussion, just fall in or fall out.)There will be no hard feelings on my part should you decide to move on, (In fact, I will be dancing the whole day!) and I pray God blesses you wherever you make your church home. (Because otherwise you might come back!) Of course, this would not be the outcome I have been praying for, (Because there are 4 of you, and that will hurt our attendance averages) but it would probably be a better outcome than you being in a church with preaching you cannot support. (Better for me that is, because this stuff hurts my feelings and makes me uncomfortable.) My sermons reflect not only my positions, but those of our leadership and the church as a whole. (When I say the church as a whole, that excludes you, of course.) It would be difficult, at best, for you to be happy and to grow here if you are on a different page regarding matters as important as those reflected in your paper. (Actually, quite the opposite. Your preaching has caused me to search my Bible more than at any other time in my life. It is kind of like being in school and preparing for a debate. You have to be on your toes and do your research, or you will fail. I have done my research, and feel that I am more than ever prepared to give an answer for what I believe to be true. I just am sorry that it has fallen on deaf ears. Well, not really deaf, more so unwilling to listen. I believe that there is a difference!) It would be more likely that your frustrations would only grow. (First, I don't base my "happiness" on external things. My joy is in the Lord, and being unhappy is not the problem for me that it is for you. To quote John Piper, "God is most glorified when I am most satisfied in him." So my joy is not based on my circumstances. God's blessings surround me in times of plenty and times of little, in times of despair and times of rejoicing. I see that as a major difference in our approaches to Him.)

Whatever you decide, I will regard you as friends and as my brother and sister in Christ. (If this is how you treat your family, I feel sorry for them.)

There you have it. The entire text plus added commentary. It makes me sad to go through this, but it also helps affirm our choice and see the value of the past 18 or so months. Praise God.

The Pastor's Letter - Part 4

Parts 1-3 are the previous posts. My musings are bolded.

I regret that you came to a different conclusion about me as a preacher and that you interpreted my comments in a negative and objectionable light. Perhaps it was because you did not know me and were not sure about some of my foundational beliefs, so when certain statements were made you feared I meant them one way when, if you had known me better, you would have known that I did not mean them that way. (Yeah, Jesus had that same problem when He spoke to the Pharisees. But seriously, if you have to know the preacher to understand what he says when he preaches, isn't that a problem?)

One theme that seemed to permeate your comments was the theme that we need to focus on giving glory to God, not get caught up in a bunch of works and rules, etc. to (Okay, perhaps I was not clear enough for you. It is not that we should not being doing good things, it is that the good things we do should should be motivated by our love for God and seeing Him as beautiful, and not by a desire to be blessed or curry God's favor. When 90% of the sermon is telling us how to behave and the other 10% is offering an invitation, that does not glorify God.) I assure you, that I agree that glorifying God is paramount. (That is what you say, so then why is that not reflected in your messages?) I also believe that we can best glorify God when we devote ourselves to the disciplines and practices given us to follow in the New Testament. (Okay, so you admit this.) Preaching on such things is not intended to replace the goal of glorifying God, but rather to enable us to reach that goal. (While that might not be intended, it is the result. We do not reach the goal of glorifying God by human effort. You can espouse all the behaviors you want, without the gospel it is in vain. Gal. 1:6-7  ⁶ I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— ⁷ which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ.)

Another theme I picked up on in your responses was an emphasis on the fact that God has to bring about the change in our lives - we don't do it ourselves. Again, I agree with you and my sermons are not intended to contradict that truth. (Again, while that may not be the intention, I believe it is the result.)  At the same time, I believe that God won't bring that change into our lives against our free will. As I said in Come and Be Fed,  we can't do it without Him and He chooses not to do it without us. (Yes, cliches are fine, but what does that really mean? How much is God and how much is us? How much do we need Him and how much does he need us? Inquiring minds want to know.)    

More later.

The Pastor's Letter - Part 1

Over a year ago, we had spoken to our pastor regarding some questions we had about some things he had said in some messages. We met face to face in his office. Although the meeting seemed to start off on a defensive note, by the end of the meeting we left feeling positive, with an assurance that he would prayerfully consider our concerns and we would meet again.

About a week or so later, we received a letter from the pastor. Here is the beginning, my comments are bolded...

Letterhead states:
University Christian Church
Where Christ is the Master and People Matter

Dear Don and Paula,

I had promised to get back with you after reading your comments and praying about your concerns, (Yes, you did. This was both our understanding as we left the meeting.) and I thought a letter might be simpler than trying to schedule another meeting (although I am not opposed to meeting again with you if you still want to do so after reading this). (Reading between the lines, I am sending a letter because I really don't want to give you an opportunity to talk with me. My hope is that after reading this, you will not return.)

Let me begin by thanking you for having the integrity and courage to share your concerns directly with me, rather than going to a third party. (because that would require much more damage control.) That is the Biblical approach, (So what part of the Biblical approach involves sending a letter instead of dealing with someone face-to-face?) but so often not what people choose to do. (Like your choices and the choices of the eldership, for example?) It was difficult and painful for me to hear and read your perception of my preaching, but it also challenged me to scrutinize myself even more than usual. Such an exercise can be quite healthy from time to time. (Personal scrutiny is your answer to this? "Let me see if I am okay, yup, I'm fine.")

There you have the first 2 paragraphs. There is more to come.

Kicked to the Curb - Part 6

HOW WELL THEY LISTEN!

I was told that they had listened to me. Some meetings had taken place. I was told that they cared about me. I was told that my beliefs were a problem. Elder T: So we've listened., but until we agree to your viewpoint, we haven't listened." So I asked the question, one that would be easy to answer if they indeed had done all this listening to me, "Do you even know what my viewpoint is?" Their was a brief pause and then Elder T responded, "From what I understand is, you believe that we shouldn't be going out and working for God's kingdom." Those who know me, who have read my blog, who have listened would know that is absurd. It's called antinomianism, and I do not hold to that belief. But I did not want to cloud this issue, so I told him, "That's totally incorrect, and that is what I mean." I was then asked, What is my viewpoint? So I continued, "My viewpoint is that when we do things, when we work, it's not because we are told to work, it is because we have such a desire in our heart to honor and worship Christ and we see him as beautiful as he is, and that our work is a response to his grace and not his grace is a response to our work. And that is what I hear a lot of in that pulpit. (That his grace is a response to our work. Kind of a watered down Joel Osteen approach. Smile!)

I was asked by Elder G, "Do you think we believe in works-based salvation here?" I responded, "I don't think you think that, but yes, I do." Elder G, "How?" Response, "Because if you listen 90% of the sermons content, it is about what to do, and 10% or less is about why to do it, when it should be the other way around."

So, if I am wrong, I am wrong. More conversation ensued, but it mostly rehashed the same ideas. Eventually, the meeting ended with them asking me to let them know my decision within 2 weeks. We haven't been back since.

And we haven't gotten a postcard either. At least they got that right.

Kicked to the Curb - Part 5

Elder T: "What we are seeing is every Sunday you have a problem or critique of the sermon, and that to me seems out of, way out.  ...You're a critiquer" (Critiquer, is that a word, or did he make that up?) "As I see it, you're not teachable." (If by teachable you mean blindly following whatever you want to lay out before me without questioning, then yes, I am unteachable. But as a teacher, I know that one of the important elements of a good teacher is the ability to respond to and answer the questions of my students. A teacher's goal is to guide students to the truth, now shove it down their throats.

Can you see Paul saying this to the Bereans. "Hey, you guys, stop critiquing my message and just agree, would ya? We gotta have some more unity here! You, the guy with the beige tunic, one more question like that and you are outta here! Now open your scrolls to..."

I turned the tables by saying that I could say the same of them. Elder G asked, "You don't think we're teachable? I asked, "Tell me how you have been teachable?" Elder T responded, "Well, we've been listening to Steve, his preaching. We listen to others who teach us in class." So, listening to one man preach, and his disciples teach in Sunday School makes you a broad-minded individual? Again, this borders on pure arrogance. It's like saying you know how to swim because you have been wadding in the kiddie pool, and the big pool is attached to it. I was asked why I said they were unteachable. I replied , "I am saying it because of the same reason you say it about me. You say I am unteachable because I don't listen to you. (And I don't. Not because I consider myslef unteachable, but because in all of our conversations, they have yet to teach or discuss anything. All they want to do is shut me up by crying "unity" and telling me to get in line. That is not teaching.) I read a lot of books, I read my Bible, I feel like I am very teachable. I feel like I have grown more in the last year and a half than I have ever grown in my life. And it's challenging and it is difficult to sit here in this position to say, you know what, maybe you guys are wrong." I was interrupted by Elder T at this point. He asked if I ever ask myself that question. I responded, "Absolutely, I ask myself that question every day, because I went through Bible college and I went to the Christian Church and have been in it for a long time, and for me to start questioning these things and to feel like maybe we are off by a little bit or maybe we're off by a lot. And really when I started to come to that conclusion and I wanted some answers, basically  I was told nobody wants to listen to you, nobody wants to hear it."

What I would like to add: And I want to thank-you. Because you did not respond, I went in search of answers on my own. I read my Bible, listened to the sermons of pastors that I respect, continued to read books that would stretch me. And it has been awesome. It is what has brought me to this point where I can look you in the eye and mot be ashamed of what I believe. It is what helps me to see through the veneer of Christianity that lays on you. It is what brings me to pray for you, that God might soften your hearts to hear and to listen. It is what has brought me to understand that the joy of knowing God is not dependant upon my circumstance or level of comfort. Thank-you so much. I thought for a long time that God would open your hearts, at least to a point that we could work together. But now I see that maybe God did this for my growth and perhaps as a means of holding you accountable someday. That is all in His court. I still pray that He will mold you to be more in His image, something I pray for myself and my family as well.

Kicked to the Curb - Part 4

I was given 2 options.

1.  "Repent of this critical attitude that is leading to divisiveness, could lead to divisiveness, and come join with us, be supportive of the leadership and Steve, grow with us, and help us further God's kingdom"

2.  Or, we'd like you to go to another church, a place that you can worship and be happy.

And I was generously given 2 weeks to reply.

I questioned if they were asking or telling me to leave. I was given the following analogy:

Elder T: "You're a teacher, if you have a disruptive student in your class my hunch is that you tell this student, 'Here's the expectations for you to stay in this class. If you don't fill those expectations, I'm going to send you to the Principal's office"

I asked for the specific expectations, because I did not want to go to the Principal's office!

1.  Stop the critical attitude of Steve's preaching, to him and to other people. That you try to join us in fellowship, and that you be involved in the work of the kingdom here. That critical attitude could lead to division and that is the big concern.

I then asked, "So if I don't agree with something that has been said, then I don't have the right to talk about it, is that what you are saying? Because that is all that I have done. I found out that the problem was that I was talking to others in the congregation and not keeping it within Elder T., Elder G and the pastor. But they knew there were concerns and questions, and they never sat down to discuss them. They would say that we did, because we did meet, but every time it was a meeting to do damage control. So discussing theology is out-of-bounds, unless done in their presence and only their presence. They say that their desire is to protect the flock. But if that is true, then why did some of the elders compliment my teaching at the Journeymen meeting? Why, after all the discussions have they not come up to me and told me where my toughts are unbiblical? Why, at our breakfast meeting did Elder S state, "I can't argue with your thoughts, but this is not good for the church." Really? So now being a wolf is not a matter of false teaching, it is just a matter of any teaching that we don't want to listen to? I recall my mentioning the name of Francis Chan at one of the meetings with the pastor. His response was, "He's always capping on the church." So because Chan finds some inconsistencies in the church, we should discount what he says? And they look at me as arrogant, but they refuse to see anything they do as being able to be scrutinized.

As I continue to rehash this episode, it makes me sad. I feel that I need to express myself somewhere, and if others read it, so be it. I can back up what I say, they can't because much of it is made up. Where is the alleged response from the pastor to everyone of my questions and concerns? He said the pastor sent an e-mail to me and he received a copy. I would love to see it. But again, that goes to the whole idea that the brute squad did not confront me on Biblical terms, allowing me to talk to any who heard what I said, and not allowing me to invite others to the meeting who were there and could tell what they heard. But rules don't matter if they don't work in your favor. This is their idea of unity?

Kicked to the Curb - Part 3

The charge: Divisiveness.

Elder T: "First of all, when (Elder G) and (the pastor) and  I met with you, you said you had your concerns, and you were keeping those concerns between us."

That meeting took place in October, and now it is February. Has anyone bothered to talk to me since that meeting? As a matter of fact, when Elder S came to visit after we had indicated we probably should leave, he invited the pastor who said he did not want to come. Then, when we did meet again at the request of my wife, he was upset because we had not changed our position. I guess time does not heal everything. I guess as long as they can keep a lid on things, all is well. The lid is on gentlemen, God have mercy on you.

So, it is divisive to ask questions, it is divisive to talk about things that frustrate you in small group, it is okay to know there are concerns and never talk about them, it is okay to bully people into submission, and when they won't submit to kick them to the curb. All in the name of conformity unity. Is this real Christianity?

I guess that is one reason I love to listen to Matt Chandler, Tim Keller, Francis Chan, etc. They are not afraid of confrontation. They confront me everytime I listen to them. They are not worried about how the audience might take their message, they are more concerned about how does their message glorify God.

I guess if you go by their definition of being divisive, Jesus was divisive too. He confronted people. He let the rich young ruler walk away. He told Nicodemus that unless he was born of the water and the Spirit he would not see the kingdom of God. He pronounced woes upon the religious leaders. He angered them with his words. Or the Holy Spirit. He slayed Annanias and Sapphira. Dead. He put the fear of God into the people. Couldn't he have just told them to get along?

Is all that God demands of us is to attend church, get along at a superficial level, give some of our income, and smile while doing it? Oh, and invite people to come to church so they can do it too? What does the Scripture mean, “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as you are. (Matt 23:15)

Kicked to the Curb - Part 2

So they decided that they were right and I was wrong. Even though, they don't know my position, because they have never talked TO me, they have only talked AT me. There was never any discussion involving me. Just their own amongst themselves. Probably went something like this...

Elder T: So, what do you think of this whippersnapper, coming in and challenging the pastor's messages. This pastor has been here what, 7 or eight years now? Surely we couldn't be wrong that long.

Elder G: You know it. I don't care if I have talked to him and find some of his thoughts interesting. He actually has the audacity to disagree with the pastor!

Elder L: But perhaps, to be on the safe side, we should listen to one of the pastor's sermons with a more critical eye.

(After listening to a sermon)

Elder G: Well, that does it. He says the same wonderful things that he always says. What a spirit-inspired genius. I couldn't have said it better myself. Well, maybe just a little bit better, but I have more important work to do for God.

Elder T: Well said G. We didn't even have to open a Bible to agree with the pastor, it just made so much sense to me. And the pastor put all of those proof-texts in so I didnt have to anyway.

Elder G: Yes, just like he does when he answers questions in Bible studies. He can quote them almost as good as I can.

Elder T: So there we have it, we agree with ourselves, no need to discuss anything. And anyone who does not agree with us, well, they are just divisive. We have it nailed, no problems here. Well, except when someone disagrees with us. Then we have to shut them up to protect the poor little sheeps in our flock.

Elder L: That's sheep. The plural of sheep is sheep.

Elder G: Gentlemen, let's not disagree. Here, give me that dictionary. (Writes in an "s" after the entry for sheep.) See? We just all need to agree.

Elder L: My apologies. How could I have not seen that before?

Well, maybe that is not exactly how it happened, but I think it is close.

Kicked to the curb - Part 1

I have been kicked to the curb. The elders of the church I previously attended have asked that I repent or stop attending. Repent of what, you ask? Good question.

At our meeting, everyone was friendly and introductions were offered, but not needed. After a quick prayer, they got down to business. I am a terrible person because I do not fully embrace the pastor's preaching. I have actually had the nerve to ask questions.

I was confronted with the evidence. Did I say evidence? I mean with the accusations. I was accused of sending several e-mails. When I asked if I could see them, none were produced. I did admit to handing the pastor a typed letter addressing some of my concerns. I was chastised because of the length of the letter, 6 pages. Perhaps I should have asked the page limit for such inquiries, but I don't think it was really the length that mattered. It was the fact that I did not embrace the pastor's messages.

I was also told that the elders listened to me, then went back to listen to the pastor's messages more critically, and they affirmed everything he said. Nice of them to do that, I suppose. No need to sit down with me and open a Bible. No need to present evidence of the accusations they were making. They could have just had the meeting without me, and e-mailed me the results, because you can't confront accusations that exaggerated and you can't question witnesses that are not allowed to attend the meeting. The inquisition gets to make the rules and don't go talking about Biblical discipline. They will decide when and how to apply the Bible.

There, now that we understand the rules, let's play.

Leaving church

Video found here.



After my last experience, I am ready to leave the church, at least the one that I am attending. I listened to most of the sermon I missed this week. It is taken from Acts 5, the story of Ananias and Sapphira. Of course, he takes the easy road, the surface road, and makes it about me and my giving. He even brings in the concept of tithing. But don't worry, the elders have assured me that they believe in grace and not works. After listening, I find myself asking, "Is it no wonder that people are leaving the church left and right, when all we have to offer is a prescription for behavior? While money is involved in this story, I don't think this was included in the books of Acts to get us to fork over a few more bucks. I see more of a story about how God still wants to be taken seriously in all areas, and he doesn't want us coming to Him with a false sense of confidence in ourselves, thinking we can fool him or thinking that he owes us because of what we have done. Kind of a "works without faith" attitude. But if they preached that at University Christian Church of Muncie, Indiana, then they would have to take a closer look in the mirror. And I don't think that they are ready to do that.

This video talks about the dechurched and unchurched. He states how the unchurched are hostile to the church. Why shouldn't they be, when so many churches preach themselves and their glory rather than God's glory. He also talks about how this will probably turn into an indifference in the future. Isn't that what happens when one hears the same baloney over and over, we just reach a point where we want to turn and say, "Whatever!"

I appreciate the ministries of men like Matt Chandler, Tim Keller and others who are gospel centered preachers. I hope to find such a church someday. But like Bono, I still haven't found what I'm looking for.

Go ahead, make my day.

I was asked last Sunday by our elders to "find another church" if I do not "repent" of my critical attitude and "join them in fellowship."

This is wrong on so many levels, it is almost commical, were it not so deadly serious.

THE 411

I was asked to meet with the elders of our church last Sunday to discuss the topic of "unity." At least they called it unity, I call it conformity. They are concerned that my questioning of the pastor's behavior and actions could be divisive. I agree! If people really knew what he was preaching and how he was behaving, they might want to do something about it!

My previous posts have detailed some of the issues I have had, so I will not go into specific details here. What I want to talk about here is the behavior of the elders, and how it mirrors that of the pastor. One of the things about unity is, it seeks the truth. Conformity, on the other hand believes that it already possesses the truth and everyone else should just fall in line with it. Bring on the brute squad!

This meeting was wrong on so many levels. First, it did not follow Biblical patterns of discipline. I was accused of saying criticizing things about the minister at our small group meeting. (Apparently I am not aware of the "no criticizing" clause in the New Testament.) I was not allowed to bring in witnesses who heard what was said, nor did they present witnesses to accuse me. No one spoke to me face to face (which would have been the first step according to Matthew 18.) They just spoke about what they had heard, and took it as gospel truth. (Yes, I see the irony of calling it "gospel truth.") The people I invited from the small group were not allowed to attend. Why weren't the accusers reprimanded for their inappropriate behavior? Why weren't they told to talk to me first, in accordance with Matthew 18? Maybe it is because unity follows the rules,conformity makes its own rules.

I was also accused of talking about the minister with another member of the congregation, which I admit I did. Two men, having dinner, discussing their faith and church. A private conversation that was not intended to go outside of that meeting. Should not people have friends with which they can discuss their victories and or frustrations? This person, however, chose to speak to the pastor about my concerns. My hope is that he did this out of love, and not out of any other desire. But the pastor apparently took this conversation to the elders, and they used this to say that I was stirring up dissention. Again, I invited the person I spoke to to attend the meeting, but the chairman of the elders said it was a closed meeting, and he was not allowed to attend. But they are in good company, Jesus was not allowed to face his accusers either.

I was told that I am a "critiquer." (I don't view that as a bad thing, although I know that they do.) I have criticisms of the pastor's sermons. I know that I have a different point of view than most others. My issue is that everytime I tried to discuss any concerns, these concerns were never addressed, I was only told things like, "stop being critical," "you are divisive," or "if you don't support the pastor's preaching, you should find another church." Yet when I ask them what about my perspective goes against the Bible, I don't get an answer. Is weighing what the pastor says wrong? Paul didn't seem to mind this, in fact, he commended the Berean Christians for studying the Scriptures to see if what he said was true. I guess if they had any problems, they just kept them to themselves. I made the mistake of actually trying to talk to the pastor about my concerns.

I was told at the meeting that the minister had addressed each of my concerns in an e-mail, and that this e-mail had been forwarded to each of the elders as well. I stated that I had not received such an e-mail, and asked if I could see a copy. They did not have one, and (of course) the minister was not at the meeting.The only thing I remembered getting was a letter saying that he would not address my concerns because he did not want to "quarrel about words," and that if we were not "confident of his preaching" we should find another place to worship. If Paul did not command such an attitude, how can they?

I suppose I could go on, and probably will at some later time to highlight some of the other frustrations I have felt during this meeting and episode of my life, believe me, there have been more. But I think for now, all I can say is, thanks for making my day. Our time at this church has been a difficult one. Although the pastor spoke of treating people with grace in the sermon that morning, I told the elders that we had experienced very little grace during our time there. Although we felt that God wanted us there for a season, there comes a time when you have to look at your options.

If the leaders are that regimented and blind toward what they are doing, if the pastor is that unconcerned and unwilling to listen, how could or would I anticipate that any persons in the congregation would understand or be drawn closer to Christ by continuing to attend there? I believe that I am right in my understandings, and have the Scriptures to back them up. But I also believe that to continue to confront at this point would be a losing proposition not only for me, but for the church. As Scripture says, the weeds will not be taken out until the harvest. To uproot them now would damage the crop. So I guess I just need to let the weeds grow. Right? Unless the Lord says otherwise, that is where I stand at this time.

This one sounds familiar

From Trevin Wax, whose blog can be found here

This one reminds me of our Wednesday night service a couple of weeks ago, where the preacher was talking about our non-denominational denomination. It seems that God orchestrated several events about a hundred years ago culminating in the Christian Church/Churches of Christ, who now number about a million in the United States alone.

God moved so that 1/3 of 1% of us could get it right. Go God!

I was teaching students about similes, and once one came up with this one...as slow as a turtle with an elephant on its back. God not only moves in mysterious ways, he takes his time too. But if we focus on the word "million" it sounds so much better. So let's do that instead.

A Cute & Cuddly God

Somehow we've managed to preach Christ crucified in such a way that few are offended, a once unmanageable God suddenly seems nice, and the gospel makes good sense-as we are accustomed to making sense.

Michael Horton. Christless Christianity: The Alternative Gospel of the American Church (p. 10). Kindle Edition.

What is it that Christianity demands of us? Church attendance? Good moral behavior? Tithing? Most of this stuff is stuff that I can tolerate. (Okay, that tithing one hurts a little.) What about witnessing? Turning the other cheek? Volunteering to teach Sunday School? (Getting a little more painful now.) How about going the extra mile? Carrying our cross? (Enough already.)

What is it that Christianity demands of us? Everything. To me, it all goes back to the first commandment, to have no idols, nothing more ultimate than God. Are you offended now? Most of the time, when we preach Christ, we preach the salvation part. The good stuff. You get to go to heaven, yay! Who would be offended by that? But what does it mean to be saved? According to the Bible, the message of the cross is a stumbling block and foolishness. (1 Cor. 1:23) I think back to Mel Gibson's movie, The Passion of the Christ. Did that not offend some people? Would you leave a movie like that believing that all Jesus wants is for you is a couple of hours on Sunday morning and a few bucks from your paycheck?

"A once manageable God suddenly seems nice."

What ever happened to that fiery, angry, Old Testament God? I think of the lion of C. S. Lewis's Chronicles of Narnia. You know, the apex predator animal. The one that now we just want to cuddle up to, pet, or even slap on the tail? What about the holy and righteous God who had the earth swallow up people when they crossed him, or rained down fire and brimstone from heaven? Well He has been replaced by the God who sent His Son and is just begging you to accept Him. How nice!

"and the gospel makes good sense-as we are accustomed to making sense."

Now, God finally makes sense. Now He fits into the box. He is no longer that out of control personality. I like this God and I can accept Him. And if I've got this all right, I am safe, secure, guaranteed a spot in the coming kingdom. Awesome!

But what if I'm wrong?

We come to church, it seems, less to be transformed by the Good News than to celebrate our own transformation and to receive fresh marching orders for transforming ourselves and our world.

Michael Horton. Christless Christianity: The Alternative Gospel of the American Church (p. 19). Kindle Edition.

What if it is not about me? What if it is about God? What if?